Our Posts Part I page 1
divagreen
11th February 2012, 08:49 PM
This thread was inspired by this exchange:
I can make a copy of the database one weekend. Doing it from a particular point in time would be a total pain. Just dumping the whole database would be relatively simple.
If what you want is the content - the posts, that's all you need to start a new forum with all the current posts as of the time of that copy.
If this is something you guys would actually do I won't be posting here anymore. I try to avoid connecting my online username to my real life identity, but I also try to avoid participating in any online discussions that would embarrass me (or worse) if they were linked to my actual life somehow. This is not a board that I would be upset to be seen to post on. But if someone can easily take all my posts and put them on their own site, whatever it may be, in such a way that it looks like I'd been participating there all along...that's not acceptable to me.
I'd like to know if this raises concerns for other members.
Count me as one of the concerned members. :)
I can make a copy of the database one weekend. Doing it from a particular point in time would be a total pain. Just dumping the whole database would be relatively simple.
If what you want is the content - the posts, that's all you need to start a new forum with all the current posts as of the time of that copy.
If this is something you guys would actually do I won't be posting here anymore. I try to avoid connecting my online username to my real life identity, but I also try to avoid participating in any online discussions that would embarrass me (or worse) if they were linked to my actual life somehow. This is not a board that I would be upset to be seen to post on. But if someone can easily take all my posts and put them on their own site, whatever it may be, in such a way that it looks like I'd been participating there all along...that's not acceptable to me.
I'd like to know if this raises concerns for other members.
Count me as one of the concerned members. :)
Hermit
11th February 2012, 08:56 PM
Once something gets onto the internet for all to see, it is most unlikely that you can remove it. At times stuff that has gotten onto the internet goes viral, that is to say, out of control.
As long as you put stuff on the internet with that in mind, it should not matter to you where it goes from there.
As long as you put stuff on the internet with that in mind, it should not matter to you where it goes from there.
oblivion
11th February 2012, 08:57 PM
thanks...I've been meaning to start a thread on this topic.
Speaking strictly as a member, not a janitor...
I think I've been burned too many times by threads (and even whole subforums) being deleted or whisked out of member sight, and that colors my strong conviction that forum managment (whatever the governance model) does not fully own the content, not even the compilation.
Making it possible to clone a site and have two sites with identical histories that move onward in different directions is attractive for a lot of reasons. Reading teshi's concerns woke me up, and made me wonder why similar concerns aren't at the top of my mind when thinking about this kind of scenario.
I don't have an answer, yet.
But, I do see those concerns as quite valid - valid enough that I'm not as comfortable with the idea of cloning a forum as I was.
as a janitor...
I'd still be interested in making it possible to hive off the posts of members who opt in, but the technical challenges of doing that in a way that is useable for the hypothetical other forum is pretty daunting.
Speaking strictly as a member, not a janitor...
I think I've been burned too many times by threads (and even whole subforums) being deleted or whisked out of member sight, and that colors my strong conviction that forum managment (whatever the governance model) does not fully own the content, not even the compilation.
Making it possible to clone a site and have two sites with identical histories that move onward in different directions is attractive for a lot of reasons. Reading teshi's concerns woke me up, and made me wonder why similar concerns aren't at the top of my mind when thinking about this kind of scenario.
I don't have an answer, yet.
But, I do see those concerns as quite valid - valid enough that I'm not as comfortable with the idea of cloning a forum as I was.
as a janitor...
I'd still be interested in making it possible to hive off the posts of members who opt in, but the technical challenges of doing that in a way that is useable for the hypothetical other forum is pretty daunting.
borealis
11th February 2012, 09:11 PM
I've been on forums where banning an individual caused all of their posts to disappear with that action. It was absolutely horrible, and I've no idea what kind of forum software was being used, but in this instance, perhaps individuals could opt to be removed similarly from the clone, if that is technically easier.
divagreen
11th February 2012, 09:30 PM
I have been on both sides of the spectrum wrt to postal removal, heh.
I was in a haiku thread where we had some incredible engagments and the thread was nuked cos the mod was new and the thread was duplicating posts and he did not think to simply lock the thread and start a new one.
I have also had my posts deleted wholescale but that is a different story, lol. I wasn't banned btw.
But this is not what we are talking about. This is someone taking all of our posts on here and putting them on another site that they started as if we were members and had joined accordingly, correct? It would not be people quoting you, it would look like you were actually posting on that site with intention which would be disingenuous if you never signed up to that site to begin with.
I will leave out the techno aspect of my paranoia for now.
I was in a haiku thread where we had some incredible engagments and the thread was nuked cos the mod was new and the thread was duplicating posts and he did not think to simply lock the thread and start a new one.
I have also had my posts deleted wholescale but that is a different story, lol. I wasn't banned btw.
But this is not what we are talking about. This is someone taking all of our posts on here and putting them on another site that they started as if we were members and had joined accordingly, correct? It would not be people quoting you, it would look like you were actually posting on that site with intention which would be disingenuous if you never signed up to that site to begin with.
I will leave out the techno aspect of my paranoia for now.
oblivion
11th February 2012, 09:43 PM
right. as a techy, on this side I could do stuff to the data on this side to distinguish the posts made by members here as opposed to originally made on the new forum. but, it could all be undone on the other forum if the database guru wished.
Teshi
11th February 2012, 09:48 PM
But this is not what we are talking about. This is someone taking all of our posts on here and putting them on another site that they started as if we were members and had joined accordingly, correct? It would not be people quoting you, it would look like you were actually posting on that site with intention which would be disingenuous if you never signed up to that site to begin with.
Yes. On god only know what type of site.
This is entirely unacceptable to me.
Yes. On god only know what type of site.
This is entirely unacceptable to me.
charlou
11th February 2012, 11:12 PM
But this is not what we are talking about. This is someone taking all of our posts on here and putting them on another site that they started as if we were members and had joined accordingly, correct? It would not be people quoting you, it would look like you were actually posting on that site with intention which would be disingenuous if you never signed up to that site to begin with.
Yes. On god only know what type of site.
This is entirely unacceptable to me.
I understand and agree that we should not facilitate this happening.
To address the concerns about losing everything due to human error or malice, would it be acceptable to keep a back up "mindromp forum" offsite, so that it could be restored, restarted anew, depending on the circumstances? I'd have no problem with oblivion doing so.
Yes. On god only know what type of site.
This is entirely unacceptable to me.
I understand and agree that we should not facilitate this happening.
To address the concerns about losing everything due to human error or malice, would it be acceptable to keep a back up "mindromp forum" offsite, so that it could be restored, restarted anew, depending on the circumstances? I'd have no problem with oblivion doing so.
oblivion
11th February 2012, 11:40 PM
We have a weekly full backup already, which is not stored on the server. The backup starts at 1 AM US ET on Sundays.
I could set up a second backup of the database itself, maybe midweek, if desired.
I could set up a second backup of the database itself, maybe midweek, if desired.
gib
12th February 2012, 12:01 AM
duplicate the site as rational pedo romp
ficus
12th February 2012, 12:18 AM
But this is not what we are talking about. This is someone taking all of our posts on here and putting them on another site that they started as if we were members and had joined accordingly, correct? It would not be people quoting you, it would look like you were actually posting on that site with intention which would be disingenuous if you never signed up to that site to begin with.
Yes. On god only know what type of site.TR type...:noo:
Yes. On god only know what type of site.TR type...:noo:
Mr. Mellow
12th February 2012, 01:42 AM
It's a good question. If the god of RD.net – arguably the most unpleasant character in all forumdum, jealous and proud of it, a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak, a vindictive, bloodthirsty forum cleanser and a megalomaniacal and capriciously malevolent bully – had handed over the forum's data, whole cloth, for a resurrection of something resembling the original, I would not have objected to allowing my vacuous content (posted under my real name, by the way) to go with it. However, if JT (PBUH) had handed the data over to WeGuzzleHitlerJiz.net, I would have sued their asses.
If Mind Romp died, re-boot it and take me with, but I want the option of re-registering. If I choose not to, I don't want to exist there. I can't stop a copy-paste, but I really don't see the point of anything more than a link to an archive of the site as it stood when it died, identified clearly as to domain and date range of the archive.
If Mind Romp died, re-boot it and take me with, but I want the option of re-registering. If I choose not to, I don't want to exist there. I can't stop a copy-paste, but I really don't see the point of anything more than a link to an archive of the site as it stood when it died, identified clearly as to domain and date range of the archive.
FedUpWithFaith
12th February 2012, 01:57 AM
Here's a question. What makes this site, this site?
We don't have the ability to give our permission for anything this forum might do with its content or our information. Why should this issue be different? Our core ethos places a minimum value on privacy.
What if Eloise left for awhile to come back to a forum that had made significant changes or highly biased interpretations of its existing core ethos in favor of a majority-driven derivative. The minority might rally behind Eloise to take back the forum. But if that didn't work we'd have to splinter off again. Should that be allowed (to include the copying of content) and which splinter should be called MindRomp?
This is no simple conundrum if you think about it.
We don't have the ability to give our permission for anything this forum might do with its content or our information. Why should this issue be different? Our core ethos places a minimum value on privacy.
What if Eloise left for awhile to come back to a forum that had made significant changes or highly biased interpretations of its existing core ethos in favor of a majority-driven derivative. The minority might rally behind Eloise to take back the forum. But if that didn't work we'd have to splinter off again. Should that be allowed (to include the copying of content) and which splinter should be called MindRomp?
This is no simple conundrum if you think about it.
charlou
12th February 2012, 02:06 AM
I'm off to New Zealand early April ... we all know there's very crude limited access there (see devogue) ... There's your opportunity ;)
oblivion
12th February 2012, 02:19 AM
Here's a question. What makes this site, this site?
We don't have the ability to give our permission for anything this forum might do with its content or our information. Why should this issue be different? Our core ethos places a minimum value on privacy.
What if Eloise left for awhile to come back to a forum that had made significant changes or highly biased interpretations of its existing core ethos in favor of a majority-driven derivative. The minority might rally behind Eloise to take back the forum. But if that didn't work we'd have to splinter off again. Should that be allowed (to include the copying of content) and which splinter should be called MindRomp?
This is no simple conundrum if you think about it.
the splinter with the domain name could keep "MindRomp" or give it away.
We don't have the ability to give our permission for anything this forum might do with its content or our information. Why should this issue be different? Our core ethos places a minimum value on privacy.
What if Eloise left for awhile to come back to a forum that had made significant changes or highly biased interpretations of its existing core ethos in favor of a majority-driven derivative. The minority might rally behind Eloise to take back the forum. But if that didn't work we'd have to splinter off again. Should that be allowed (to include the copying of content) and which splinter should be called MindRomp?
This is no simple conundrum if you think about it.
the splinter with the domain name could keep "MindRomp" or give it away.
FedUpWithFaith
12th February 2012, 02:44 AM
Here's a question. What makes this site, this site?
We don't have the ability to give our permission for anything this forum might do with its content or our information. Why should this issue be different? Our core ethos places a minimum value on privacy.
What if Eloise left for awhile to come back to a forum that had made significant changes or highly biased interpretations of its existing core ethos in favor of a majority-driven derivative. The minority might rally behind Eloise to take back the forum. But if that didn't work we'd have to splinter off again. Should that be allowed (to include the copying of content) and which splinter should be called MindRomp?
This is no simple conundrum if you think about it.
the splinter with the domain name could keep "MindRomp" or give it away.
That would depend on whims of who/what legally owned the unsplintered forum domain pre-split. The bigger question though would be, which site is the "true" MindRomp?
We don't have the ability to give our permission for anything this forum might do with its content or our information. Why should this issue be different? Our core ethos places a minimum value on privacy.
What if Eloise left for awhile to come back to a forum that had made significant changes or highly biased interpretations of its existing core ethos in favor of a majority-driven derivative. The minority might rally behind Eloise to take back the forum. But if that didn't work we'd have to splinter off again. Should that be allowed (to include the copying of content) and which splinter should be called MindRomp?
This is no simple conundrum if you think about it.
the splinter with the domain name could keep "MindRomp" or give it away.
That would depend on whims of who/what legally owned the unsplintered forum domain pre-split. The bigger question though would be, which site is the "true" MindRomp?
ficus
12th February 2012, 02:59 AM
IIDB became FRDB... intact... If histories of sites are clear, then there can be no valid objection, since the time of post indicates the posters idea of place.
Cunt
12th February 2012, 04:27 AM
I may be a bit simple, but didn't rdforum get copied anyway?
Can't I copy this forum (without any admin abilities) and post it elsewhere even before this discussion moves on?
Can't I copy this forum (without any admin abilities) and post it elsewhere even before this discussion moves on?
Cunt
12th February 2012, 04:30 AM
Like this, maybe? (http://www.jacquard.ca/MR10022012.html)
I assure you I did not log in to my admin account here at MR to do this.
I assure you I did not log in to my admin account here at MR to do this.
Cunt
12th February 2012, 04:30 AM
took three minutes or so.
Cunt
12th February 2012, 04:37 AM
Yes. On god only know what type of site.
This is entirely unacceptable to me.
I want you to stay, Teshi.
How can we keep you here posting, with your posts so vulnerable?
I used one method (various uses, this) of writing my posts in an image editor, saving as a jpg, and then hosting the content myself. Still not secure, but it might make yours just a bit less easy to 'pirate'.
This is entirely unacceptable to me.
I want you to stay, Teshi.
How can we keep you here posting, with your posts so vulnerable?
I used one method (various uses, this) of writing my posts in an image editor, saving as a jpg, and then hosting the content myself. Still not secure, but it might make yours just a bit less easy to 'pirate'.
Fuzzy
12th February 2012, 04:37 AM
I hope you've checked your two notifications by now. How can those not be the very first things you check?
Teshi
12th February 2012, 04:50 AM
Like this, maybe? (http://www.jacquard.ca/MR10022012.html)
I assure you I did not log in to my admin account here at MR to do this.
Your technological savviness astounds. That is truly a flawless replica of the message board.
I assure you I did not log in to my admin account here at MR to do this.
Your technological savviness astounds. That is truly a flawless replica of the message board.
Cunt
12th February 2012, 05:21 AM
No it isn't, but I was just making a point about the content. I have only very basic skills, and can do this rather quickly. I can think of a couple of slow ways to copy the whole site, but my guess is that someone with a bit more tech savvy could do it quickly.
And I did it because I want to address the serious issue you raised squarely. Tell me, what is to stop anyone from hosting your content and saying that you placed it there?
And I did it because I want to address the serious issue you raised squarely. Tell me, what is to stop anyone from hosting your content and saying that you placed it there?
Teshi
12th February 2012, 05:35 AM
No it isn't, but I was just making a point about the content. I have only very basic skills, and can do this rather quickly. I can think of a couple of slow ways to copy the whole site, but my guess is that someone with a bit more tech savvy could do it quickly.
And I did it because I want to address the serious issue you raised squarely. Tell me, what is to stop anyone from hosting your content and saying that you placed it there?
Either you're being disingenuous, or you're really this dense. Neither is a great attribute in an admin. This is almost as dumb as FUWF's conflating copying the database over to a vbulletin board on a different site with what the Wayback Machine does.
And I did it because I want to address the serious issue you raised squarely. Tell me, what is to stop anyone from hosting your content and saying that you placed it there?
Either you're being disingenuous, or you're really this dense. Neither is a great attribute in an admin. This is almost as dumb as FUWF's conflating copying the database over to a vbulletin board on a different site with what the Wayback Machine does.
Cunt
12th February 2012, 05:39 AM
Really dense.
What is the difference between copying all this (public!) content to a fresh vBulletin, maybe one post at a time, one user at a time, and copying the database? How would one look different than the other?
What is the difference between copying all this (public!) content to a fresh vBulletin, maybe one post at a time, one user at a time, and copying the database? How would one look different than the other?
Teshi
12th February 2012, 05:41 AM
Christ on a crutch.
Cunt
12th February 2012, 05:49 AM
That's helpful. Could you answer in plain English? Without all the flowery religious talk, please.
Grumps
12th February 2012, 05:52 AM
This thread was inspired by this exchange:
I can make a copy of the database one weekend. Doing it from a particular point in time would be a total pain. Just dumping the whole database would be relatively simple.
If what you want is the content - the posts, that's all you need to start a new forum with all the current posts as of the time of that copy.
If this is something you guys would actually do I won't be posting here anymore. I try to avoid connecting my online username to my real life identity, but I also try to avoid participating in any online discussions that would embarrass me (or worse) if they were linked to my actual life somehow. This is not a board that I would be upset to be seen to post on. But if someone can easily take all my posts and put them on their own site, whatever it may be, in such a way that it looks like I'd been participating there all along...that's not acceptable to me.
I'd like to know if this raises concerns for other members.
Count me as one of the concerned members. :)
If what you say is at all important enough for the world to care, it won't matter what you want.
Somehow, I doubt this is going to be a concern for the people on this forum.
I can make a copy of the database one weekend. Doing it from a particular point in time would be a total pain. Just dumping the whole database would be relatively simple.
If what you want is the content - the posts, that's all you need to start a new forum with all the current posts as of the time of that copy.
If this is something you guys would actually do I won't be posting here anymore. I try to avoid connecting my online username to my real life identity, but I also try to avoid participating in any online discussions that would embarrass me (or worse) if they were linked to my actual life somehow. This is not a board that I would be upset to be seen to post on. But if someone can easily take all my posts and put them on their own site, whatever it may be, in such a way that it looks like I'd been participating there all along...that's not acceptable to me.
I'd like to know if this raises concerns for other members.
Count me as one of the concerned members. :)
If what you say is at all important enough for the world to care, it won't matter what you want.
Somehow, I doubt this is going to be a concern for the people on this forum.
divagreen
12th February 2012, 05:59 AM
lookit cramps try to feed me burnsauce! :cheer:
Grumps
12th February 2012, 06:03 AM
Seriously. All your posts can be copied, right now, whether you want them to be or not. You can never get rid of that function. It won't matter if people think what you said is important enough to share globally.
divagreen
12th February 2012, 06:16 AM
Seriously. All your posts can be copied, right now, whether you want them to be or not. You can never get rid of that function. It won't matter if people think what you said is important enough to share globally.
Why our email addresses can be sold too! So can all of the info in the database! In fact I think the entire database can be sold! And it is all legal. ;]
Many of us joined here cos we saw who had the keys and trusted them.
Why our email addresses can be sold too! So can all of the info in the database! In fact I think the entire database can be sold! And it is all legal. ;]
Many of us joined here cos we saw who had the keys and trusted them.
Grumps
12th February 2012, 07:34 AM
Seriously. All your posts can be copied, right now, whether you want them to be or not. You can never get rid of that function. It won't matter if people think what you said is important enough to share globally.
Why our email addresses can be sold too! So can all of the info in the database! In fact I think the entire database can be sold! And it is all legal. ;]
Many of us joined here cos we saw who had the keys and trusted them.
It's just a statement of fact.
Ctrl+C does just as well as copying an entire database.
You can screenshot along with that.
If they care enough about our opinion to avoid doing it, it's all good, but really anyone who's going to copy the entire database for any reason they haven't asked us for, doesn't care what we think.
Why our email addresses can be sold too! So can all of the info in the database! In fact I think the entire database can be sold! And it is all legal. ;]
Many of us joined here cos we saw who had the keys and trusted them.
It's just a statement of fact.
Ctrl+C does just as well as copying an entire database.
You can screenshot along with that.
If they care enough about our opinion to avoid doing it, it's all good, but really anyone who's going to copy the entire database for any reason they haven't asked us for, doesn't care what we think.
oblivion
12th February 2012, 07:42 AM
for now, and i expect for the long term, the people who can copy the whole database do care what we think.
Cunt
12th February 2012, 07:57 AM
While I understand that you can make a reasonable effort to secure the database, someone unethical would be able to do it anyway. I think the splinters thing has some merit, and would like to explore the idea a bit...something about it seems really like human movements I have experienced...
Hermit
12th February 2012, 09:42 AM
What is the difference between copying all this (public!) content to a fresh vBulletin, maybe one post at a time, one user at a time, and copying the database? How would one look different than the other?The Wayback Machine is just an archive. Duplicating the database as the basis for some other forum that may finish up becoming a centre for a bunch of paedophiles would make me just a tad regretful that my posts appear in it. The former does not change the context in which those posts appear. In the latter it most certainly will. Unless I have decided to be active in the forum they have been transplanted to, there's nothing I can do about disassociating myself with the change of focus. And if I wanted to disassociate myself, someone would have to let me know about the existence of that forum first.
Cunt
12th February 2012, 04:51 PM
Couldn't the paedophiles (if they were unethical and desired your writing) steal your content and make it look like it was theirs?
Couldn't there be a bunch of such boards out there right now?
I see 'copying the database' as simply a much more convenient method of copying, but far from the only one.
Basically, I think there is nothing stopping anyone from doing just that. Except whatever stops people from doing it right now.
Couldn't there be a bunch of such boards out there right now?
I see 'copying the database' as simply a much more convenient method of copying, but far from the only one.
Basically, I think there is nothing stopping anyone from doing just that. Except whatever stops people from doing it right now.
divagreen
12th February 2012, 05:27 PM
Couldn't the paedophiles (if they were unethical and desired your writing) steal your content and make it look like it was theirs?
Couldn't there be a bunch of such boards out there right now?
I see 'copying the database' as simply a much more convenient method of copying, but far from the only one.
Basically, I think there is nothing stopping anyone from doing just that. Except whatever stops people from doing it right now.
That :airquotes:somebody:airquotes: would have to have access to the data base and that is usually the systems admin. So it is not just "anybody".
I am still trying to fathom that you, as an Admin, would find it perfectly acceptable to take the posts that people have already made from the database and start a new forum where the members who made the posts on the original forum did not knowingly join the "new" forum. YOU are the one who threatened to do this if you did not get your way (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?t=406&page=29).
I think that it is a shitty breach of trust on the part of those who invited us here in the first place, tbh, that this would even be considered an option. I don't think that I am the only one who thought that when they signed up that their posts would stay on this site and if they do appear on other sites it will be because someone quoted them and that would be beyond the janitors or the members' control. I can deal with the latter but not the former.
On a reread I am a little relieved that Oblivion would take the precaution to remove our email addresses and IP addresses cos tbh I was pretty lax when I joined this site and didn't use a fake gmail account from a fake IP address that essentially boils down to a fake account. I didn't think that I had to on here.
So I guess my question at this point is, if Cunt takes his toys and goes and starts a new forum will my posts be going with him even though I have yet to see anything that would inspire me to join his new forum?
Cos that is pretty important to me.
Couldn't there be a bunch of such boards out there right now?
I see 'copying the database' as simply a much more convenient method of copying, but far from the only one.
Basically, I think there is nothing stopping anyone from doing just that. Except whatever stops people from doing it right now.
That :airquotes:somebody:airquotes: would have to have access to the data base and that is usually the systems admin. So it is not just "anybody".
I am still trying to fathom that you, as an Admin, would find it perfectly acceptable to take the posts that people have already made from the database and start a new forum where the members who made the posts on the original forum did not knowingly join the "new" forum. YOU are the one who threatened to do this if you did not get your way (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?t=406&page=29).
I think that it is a shitty breach of trust on the part of those who invited us here in the first place, tbh, that this would even be considered an option. I don't think that I am the only one who thought that when they signed up that their posts would stay on this site and if they do appear on other sites it will be because someone quoted them and that would be beyond the janitors or the members' control. I can deal with the latter but not the former.
On a reread I am a little relieved that Oblivion would take the precaution to remove our email addresses and IP addresses cos tbh I was pretty lax when I joined this site and didn't use a fake gmail account from a fake IP address that essentially boils down to a fake account. I didn't think that I had to on here.
So I guess my question at this point is, if Cunt takes his toys and goes and starts a new forum will my posts be going with him even though I have yet to see anything that would inspire me to join his new forum?
Cos that is pretty important to me.
Hermit
12th February 2012, 07:02 PM
Couldn't the paedophiles (if they were unethical and desired your writing) steal your content and make it look like it was theirs?
Couldn't there be a bunch of such boards out there right now?
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x59/Hermit_graphics/Smileys/Facepalmemoticon.gif
Yes and yes. So what? I suggest you read the post you are apparently attempting to reply to again.
Couldn't there be a bunch of such boards out there right now?
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x59/Hermit_graphics/Smileys/Facepalmemoticon.gif
Yes and yes. So what? I suggest you read the post you are apparently attempting to reply to again.
Cunt
12th February 2012, 07:34 PM
That :airquotes:somebody:airquotes: would have to have access to the data base and that is usually the systems admin. So it is not just "anybody".
I am still trying to fathom that you, as an Admin, would find it perfectly acceptable to take the posts that people have already made from the database and start a new forum where the members who made the posts on the original forum did not knowingly join the "new" forum. YOU are the one who threatened to do this if you did not get your way (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?t=406&page=29). By 'threatened to do this', do you mean where I asked if everyone could?
FedUpWithFaith raised an interesting question. Can I have the source for this forum to make another, starting with our posts to date?
I would like everyone to be able to do it, since then everyone could have just what they want. (also, a hundred-or-so backups could make the content safer from nuclear war)
or did you mean where I shortly after that said...
I am not asking you to do it yet, but may. Thanks for the info.
or is THIS the 'threat' you saw?
I would prefer that it were available to everyone, rather than just to founders, but if there are objections (for instance of the security/software exploits variety) I will listen to them.
I am having a tough time seeing where I threatened anything. You however, are starting to be memorable as an ass.
It looks an awful lot like you are accusing me of things just to make your argument.
Fuck off, loser.
I think that it is a shitty breach of trust on the part of those who invited us here in the first place, tbh, that this would even be considered an option. I don't think that I am the only one who thought that when they signed up that their posts would stay on this site and if they do appear on other sites it will be because someone quoted them and that would be beyond the janitors or the members' control. I can deal with the latter but not the former. So you don't mind if the whole world steals and possibly misrepresents your posts, but somehow if the admin team here chose to make it easy for everyone to back this up and use it in other ways, you would be offended?
So fucking what?
I kind of like ANY idea which levels the playing field between the owners and posters (except for those core items of no banning/no mothering). We have a disagreement, and to me, two opinions do not equal even one fact.
Fact is, anyone registered or not here could take everything and misuse it. You want to forbid a possibly functional improvement because someone here might misuse it?
Let me know when you have a reasonable position, would you? I would like to read it.
On a reread I am a little relieved that Oblivion would take the precaution to remove our email addresses and IP addresses cos tbh I was pretty lax when I joined this site and didn't use a fake gmail account from a fake IP address that essentially boils down to a fake account. I didn't think that I had to on here.
So I guess my question at this point is, if Cunt takes his toys and goes and starts a new forum will my posts be going with him even though I have yet to see anything that would inspire me to join his new forum?
Cos that is pretty important to me.
Do you have any idea what my 'new forum' would look like? Let me give you a bit of a breakdown as to how it would go, based on my small forum experience to date...
First, I would ask some people I respect to help me plan. I don't know...maybe some folks who had demonstrated an understanding of the particularly ugly problems I have witnessed at other forums. At that point, I would begin taking on their advice. Probably adding people to the discussion who they thought could help.
By the end, it would be less 'my' forum and more of a group effort. Might find a cool name for it. Maybe...I don't know...MindRomp.
Here we are.
You don't see anything to inspire you to join 'm'y new forum? Okay, but you DID join, and you DO see value. If 'I' made a forum, this is what it would be like. This is certainly not all mine, but I did hand-pick the first few 'advisors'. I then took as much of their advice as I could understand. They are a good group partly because I did not just open it up to a democratic vote, but to discussion and accord. They didn't outnumber me on issues of disagreement - they convinced me that their way was better. I hope I convinced them that some of my ways are better, too. One place I am pleased to have contributed is the choice of software. I still prefer phpbb, but the volunteer we needed was more comfortable working in this platform. I am glad to support giving her the tools she prefers. I think others of the group also had a preference for phpbb but accepted my reasoning.
If you understand why I let the decision (which went against me) go through about not operating like a business, while still voicing strong opposition, you will understand that I can disagree with a position while still respecting it.
Your accusations don't look at all respectful to me.
I am still trying to fathom that you, as an Admin, would find it perfectly acceptable to take the posts that people have already made from the database and start a new forum where the members who made the posts on the original forum did not knowingly join the "new" forum. YOU are the one who threatened to do this if you did not get your way (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?t=406&page=29). By 'threatened to do this', do you mean where I asked if everyone could?
FedUpWithFaith raised an interesting question. Can I have the source for this forum to make another, starting with our posts to date?
I would like everyone to be able to do it, since then everyone could have just what they want. (also, a hundred-or-so backups could make the content safer from nuclear war)
or did you mean where I shortly after that said...
I am not asking you to do it yet, but may. Thanks for the info.
or is THIS the 'threat' you saw?
I would prefer that it were available to everyone, rather than just to founders, but if there are objections (for instance of the security/software exploits variety) I will listen to them.
I am having a tough time seeing where I threatened anything. You however, are starting to be memorable as an ass.
It looks an awful lot like you are accusing me of things just to make your argument.
Fuck off, loser.
I think that it is a shitty breach of trust on the part of those who invited us here in the first place, tbh, that this would even be considered an option. I don't think that I am the only one who thought that when they signed up that their posts would stay on this site and if they do appear on other sites it will be because someone quoted them and that would be beyond the janitors or the members' control. I can deal with the latter but not the former. So you don't mind if the whole world steals and possibly misrepresents your posts, but somehow if the admin team here chose to make it easy for everyone to back this up and use it in other ways, you would be offended?
So fucking what?
I kind of like ANY idea which levels the playing field between the owners and posters (except for those core items of no banning/no mothering). We have a disagreement, and to me, two opinions do not equal even one fact.
Fact is, anyone registered or not here could take everything and misuse it. You want to forbid a possibly functional improvement because someone here might misuse it?
Let me know when you have a reasonable position, would you? I would like to read it.
On a reread I am a little relieved that Oblivion would take the precaution to remove our email addresses and IP addresses cos tbh I was pretty lax when I joined this site and didn't use a fake gmail account from a fake IP address that essentially boils down to a fake account. I didn't think that I had to on here.
So I guess my question at this point is, if Cunt takes his toys and goes and starts a new forum will my posts be going with him even though I have yet to see anything that would inspire me to join his new forum?
Cos that is pretty important to me.
Do you have any idea what my 'new forum' would look like? Let me give you a bit of a breakdown as to how it would go, based on my small forum experience to date...
First, I would ask some people I respect to help me plan. I don't know...maybe some folks who had demonstrated an understanding of the particularly ugly problems I have witnessed at other forums. At that point, I would begin taking on their advice. Probably adding people to the discussion who they thought could help.
By the end, it would be less 'my' forum and more of a group effort. Might find a cool name for it. Maybe...I don't know...MindRomp.
Here we are.
You don't see anything to inspire you to join 'm'y new forum? Okay, but you DID join, and you DO see value. If 'I' made a forum, this is what it would be like. This is certainly not all mine, but I did hand-pick the first few 'advisors'. I then took as much of their advice as I could understand. They are a good group partly because I did not just open it up to a democratic vote, but to discussion and accord. They didn't outnumber me on issues of disagreement - they convinced me that their way was better. I hope I convinced them that some of my ways are better, too. One place I am pleased to have contributed is the choice of software. I still prefer phpbb, but the volunteer we needed was more comfortable working in this platform. I am glad to support giving her the tools she prefers. I think others of the group also had a preference for phpbb but accepted my reasoning.
If you understand why I let the decision (which went against me) go through about not operating like a business, while still voicing strong opposition, you will understand that I can disagree with a position while still respecting it.
Your accusations don't look at all respectful to me.
Linus
12th February 2012, 10:15 PM
Ctrl+C does just as well as copying an entire database.
You can screenshot along with that.
While I have no doubt that it is possible to copy public parts of Mindromp.org with enough effort, it surely involves more than Ctrl-C or taking screen shots. No sane human has the devotion to even copy the "What will happen at MindRomp?" thread, let alone the entire forum. You'd need to write a bot that automatically traverses the internal links at Mindromp.org and saves the webpages. Even then I'd assume you'd save something like php/html files rather than the internal data that vBulletin or whatever uses to generate the documents that are interpreted by a web browser...?
You can screenshot along with that.
While I have no doubt that it is possible to copy public parts of Mindromp.org with enough effort, it surely involves more than Ctrl-C or taking screen shots. No sane human has the devotion to even copy the "What will happen at MindRomp?" thread, let alone the entire forum. You'd need to write a bot that automatically traverses the internal links at Mindromp.org and saves the webpages. Even then I'd assume you'd save something like php/html files rather than the internal data that vBulletin or whatever uses to generate the documents that are interpreted by a web browser...?
Linus
12th February 2012, 10:22 PM
I'd still be interested in making it possible to hive off the posts of members who opt in, but the technical challenges of doing that in a way that is useable for the hypothetical other forum is pretty daunting.
Out of curiosity, how separated are the "private" data (member profiles, ignore lists, PMs, comments on posts) from the "public" data (threads and posts, say) in whatever format is used to store the site as a whole?
Out of curiosity, how separated are the "private" data (member profiles, ignore lists, PMs, comments on posts) from the "public" data (threads and posts, say) in whatever format is used to store the site as a whole?
FedUpWithFaith
12th February 2012, 10:27 PM
Couldn't the paedophiles (if they were unethical and desired your writing) steal your content and make it look like it was theirs?
Couldn't there be a bunch of such boards out there right now?
I see 'copying the database' as simply a much more convenient method of copying, but far from the only one.
Basically, I think there is nothing stopping anyone from doing just that. Except whatever stops people from doing it right now.
That :airquotes:somebody:airquotes: would have to have access to the data base and that is usually the systems admin. So it is not just "anybody".
I am still trying to fathom that you, as an Admin, would find it perfectly acceptable to take the posts that people have already made from the database and start a new forum where the members who made the posts on the original forum did not knowingly join the "new" forum. YOU are the one who threatened to do this if you did not get your way (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?t=406&page=29).
I think that it is a shitty breach of trust on the part of those who invited us here in the first place, tbh, that this would even be considered an option. I don't think that I am the only one who thought that when they signed up that their posts would stay on this site and if they do appear on other sites it will be because someone quoted them and that would be beyond the janitors or the members' control. I can deal with the latter but not the former.
On a reread I am a little relieved that Oblivion would take the precaution to remove our email addresses and IP addresses cos tbh I was pretty lax when I joined this site and didn't use a fake gmail account from a fake IP address that essentially boils down to a fake account. I didn't think that I had to on here.
So I guess my question at this point is, if Cunt takes his toys and goes and starts a new forum will my posts be going with him even though I have yet to see anything that would inspire me to join his new forum?
Cos that is pretty important to me.
I think your concern is overblown and focuses on the wrong issues. After all, what if Eloise left, Cunt retained MindRomp, and Dev started another forum? I think this is one of those things that when you give the freedom to do it, it makes it less likely it will happen. I think it's a good interim step until the forum grows and its culture matures to the point where a constitutional democracy of sorts can be trusted to preserve our core ethos.
Perhaps it makes sense to restrict the transfer of internal forum info like emails that are not typically displayed. But perhaps you will learn from this to be more careful on the internet because you have very little protection here or elsewhere. Smart people who value their privacy make efforts to create special emails for internet posting. They also take care to disassociate themselves from all the "breadcrumbs" they leave that can be traced back to them, like links to their photobucket pages, Facebook, etc. If you're really paranoid, alias your IP address. You can't prevent that informaton from being scraped and believe me, it is being scraped all the time. I helped develop underlying technology for AI-driven smart spyders used by the US Dept of Homeland Security and if I had it at my disposal, you be amazed how much I could learn about almost every one of you. Private companies and criminal organizations have stuff almost as good and perhaps even better.
I don't suppose any of us like anything we feel a part of changed without our permission. That's why we like democracy, to give us some say. I didn't vote "Yes" above because I like giving permission but because it's simply an acknowledgment of a fact of life - like death. I don't want my life taken without permission either. I'd vote "no" if that was on the ballot and it might really affect the outcome. But without any ownership interest here or democratic control I know it's unlikely I'll have any say in the matter so the vote is rather meaningless. I acknowledged that reality by voting yes.
Couldn't there be a bunch of such boards out there right now?
I see 'copying the database' as simply a much more convenient method of copying, but far from the only one.
Basically, I think there is nothing stopping anyone from doing just that. Except whatever stops people from doing it right now.
That :airquotes:somebody:airquotes: would have to have access to the data base and that is usually the systems admin. So it is not just "anybody".
I am still trying to fathom that you, as an Admin, would find it perfectly acceptable to take the posts that people have already made from the database and start a new forum where the members who made the posts on the original forum did not knowingly join the "new" forum. YOU are the one who threatened to do this if you did not get your way (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?t=406&page=29).
I think that it is a shitty breach of trust on the part of those who invited us here in the first place, tbh, that this would even be considered an option. I don't think that I am the only one who thought that when they signed up that their posts would stay on this site and if they do appear on other sites it will be because someone quoted them and that would be beyond the janitors or the members' control. I can deal with the latter but not the former.
On a reread I am a little relieved that Oblivion would take the precaution to remove our email addresses and IP addresses cos tbh I was pretty lax when I joined this site and didn't use a fake gmail account from a fake IP address that essentially boils down to a fake account. I didn't think that I had to on here.
So I guess my question at this point is, if Cunt takes his toys and goes and starts a new forum will my posts be going with him even though I have yet to see anything that would inspire me to join his new forum?
Cos that is pretty important to me.
I think your concern is overblown and focuses on the wrong issues. After all, what if Eloise left, Cunt retained MindRomp, and Dev started another forum? I think this is one of those things that when you give the freedom to do it, it makes it less likely it will happen. I think it's a good interim step until the forum grows and its culture matures to the point where a constitutional democracy of sorts can be trusted to preserve our core ethos.
Perhaps it makes sense to restrict the transfer of internal forum info like emails that are not typically displayed. But perhaps you will learn from this to be more careful on the internet because you have very little protection here or elsewhere. Smart people who value their privacy make efforts to create special emails for internet posting. They also take care to disassociate themselves from all the "breadcrumbs" they leave that can be traced back to them, like links to their photobucket pages, Facebook, etc. If you're really paranoid, alias your IP address. You can't prevent that informaton from being scraped and believe me, it is being scraped all the time. I helped develop underlying technology for AI-driven smart spyders used by the US Dept of Homeland Security and if I had it at my disposal, you be amazed how much I could learn about almost every one of you. Private companies and criminal organizations have stuff almost as good and perhaps even better.
I don't suppose any of us like anything we feel a part of changed without our permission. That's why we like democracy, to give us some say. I didn't vote "Yes" above because I like giving permission but because it's simply an acknowledgment of a fact of life - like death. I don't want my life taken without permission either. I'd vote "no" if that was on the ballot and it might really affect the outcome. But without any ownership interest here or democratic control I know it's unlikely I'll have any say in the matter so the vote is rather meaningless. I acknowledged that reality by voting yes.
oblivion
12th February 2012, 10:30 PM
I'd still be interested in making it possible to hive off the posts of members who opt in, but the technical challenges of doing that in a way that is useable for the hypothetical other forum is pretty daunting.
Out of curiosity, how separated are the "private" data (member profiles, ignore lists, PMs, comments on posts) from the "public" data (threads and posts, say) in whatever format is used to store the site as a whole?
they are in the same database, but in different tables. the table holding posts quickly becomes the largest table in the database, obviously.
Out of curiosity, how separated are the "private" data (member profiles, ignore lists, PMs, comments on posts) from the "public" data (threads and posts, say) in whatever format is used to store the site as a whole?
they are in the same database, but in different tables. the table holding posts quickly becomes the largest table in the database, obviously.
oblivion
12th February 2012, 10:37 PM
One thing that has come up is emails. If you would like a more anonymous email, you are able to change your email in your user control panel on the edit options page. the link/info to change your email should be on that page.
I forget exactly how the process goes, but you'll have to confirm your new email account. you'll receive an email with a confirmation link, which you'll need to click. Until you do the confirmation, you won't be able to post if I recall correctly.
Right now, I don't think there's much likelihood that there will be wholesale copies of the database turned over to members.
I think if we did decide to do something like that in the future, I'd want to make it an opt-in requirement. I'd set up a new user profile field that says something like "I give permission to duplicate my profile and posts if there is ever a site split/schism", with a yes/no radio button selection. Unless "yes" were selected, no copy.
It would make the duplication process much more complicated and time consuming. But, something like that would satisfy my own sense that member consent should be given for something like this.
I forget exactly how the process goes, but you'll have to confirm your new email account. you'll receive an email with a confirmation link, which you'll need to click. Until you do the confirmation, you won't be able to post if I recall correctly.
Right now, I don't think there's much likelihood that there will be wholesale copies of the database turned over to members.
I think if we did decide to do something like that in the future, I'd want to make it an opt-in requirement. I'd set up a new user profile field that says something like "I give permission to duplicate my profile and posts if there is ever a site split/schism", with a yes/no radio button selection. Unless "yes" were selected, no copy.
It would make the duplication process much more complicated and time consuming. But, something like that would satisfy my own sense that member consent should be given for something like this.
gib
12th February 2012, 10:41 PM
recall Cunt
oblivion
12th February 2012, 10:41 PM
^^ a scheme like this would probably make a lot of threads disjoint if several members who did not opt in had been major contributors. It could make the final result suboptimal enough that it wouldn't be worth the effort.
such is life.
such is life.
Fuzzy
12th February 2012, 10:42 PM
The idea of copying the database to start a new site doesn't make much sense to me. If MR suddenly splinters in the future, why wouldn't the fora that split off from MR just start from scratch?
Linus
12th February 2012, 10:45 PM
The idea of copying the database to start a new site doesn't make much sense to me. If MR suddenly splinters in the future, why wouldn't the fora that split off from MR just start from scratch?
Yeah, it's a bizarre idea.
Yeah, it's a bizarre idea.
Cunt
12th February 2012, 10:46 PM
If I had it to do over, i might make it so that every split could be facilitated as if it were old friends on either side.
I also (this is unworkable, by the way) suggested adding in the archives from RDF, TAF, HoC, Ratz and TR. Unworkable, but it raised an interesting thought.
ALL of RDF was stolen from the original site and archived offline. Many have lauded the efforts of the data-theives and use that stuff. If some of it were stolen from there, and copied to another forum, who would know? RDF surely doesn't check to see that their defunct forum is being plagiarised (unless it is by a religious group). So how many of you simply wouldn't know what had happened to your 'contribution'?
Also, OBC closed TAF and took the databases with him. IIDB sold theirs to a high bidder. TR...well, they haven't done anything like it that I know of...
I really don't see the difference you folks insist exists between some outsider stealing all the posts, and some insider sharing same.
I also (this is unworkable, by the way) suggested adding in the archives from RDF, TAF, HoC, Ratz and TR. Unworkable, but it raised an interesting thought.
ALL of RDF was stolen from the original site and archived offline. Many have lauded the efforts of the data-theives and use that stuff. If some of it were stolen from there, and copied to another forum, who would know? RDF surely doesn't check to see that their defunct forum is being plagiarised (unless it is by a religious group). So how many of you simply wouldn't know what had happened to your 'contribution'?
Also, OBC closed TAF and took the databases with him. IIDB sold theirs to a high bidder. TR...well, they haven't done anything like it that I know of...
I really don't see the difference you folks insist exists between some outsider stealing all the posts, and some insider sharing same.
FedUpWithFaith
12th February 2012, 10:47 PM
I know I sort of started this whole mess. But I think it will all become a non issue very quicklyif the forum took other ownership measures . I'd hate to see you spend your time on this Oblivion. The best interim solution I've seen so far amenable to Eloise and hopefully others is for the founders to agree on some sort of joint ownership and maybe some rules for consensus ethos interpretation. Our input may be valuable to help them put further conditions on it they haven't thought of. I don't see that as a permanent solution unless we stagnate. But it could easily take us through years of growth depending on how our membership and culture develop. Remember, these things are largely self-selecting.
Cunt
12th February 2012, 10:50 PM
Forget protecting your precious online persona for a moment (laughable as it is)
If the splinters of RDF could be attached here, searched, referenced and built on, I can see much benefit. If the original stuff from Ratz were here, we could point directly to some of the seeds of this forum on that forum.
I think if I started, I would want to start fresh, but the alternative, though breathtakingly complicated, has some appeal, even if it is bizarre.
If the splinters of RDF could be attached here, searched, referenced and built on, I can see much benefit. If the original stuff from Ratz were here, we could point directly to some of the seeds of this forum on that forum.
I think if I started, I would want to start fresh, but the alternative, though breathtakingly complicated, has some appeal, even if it is bizarre.
Linus
12th February 2012, 10:54 PM
I really don't see the difference you folks insist exists between some outsider stealing all the posts, and some insider sharing same.
Well, the probability of some outsider both having the technical know-how and devotion to copy all/lots of discussion threads (and reverse engineer the internal vBulletin data used to generate what you get when you click "save as" in your browser...?) seems negligible. Until the idea came up, I would've thought the probability that an insider would copy the internal data for the purposes of seeding a new website would be similarly negligible... But since the idea came up, perhaps I have to revise this...
Well, the probability of some outsider both having the technical know-how and devotion to copy all/lots of discussion threads (and reverse engineer the internal vBulletin data used to generate what you get when you click "save as" in your browser...?) seems negligible. Until the idea came up, I would've thought the probability that an insider would copy the internal data for the purposes of seeding a new website would be similarly negligible... But since the idea came up, perhaps I have to revise this...
Cunt
12th February 2012, 10:58 PM
Linus, what takes dedication and devotion today, will be a couple of drunken clicks 4 or 8 years from now.
Nothing is 'protected' on the internet.
The basic fact that people are coming here for 'free speech', then trying to place loads of restrictions on it is kind of puzzling for me.
Nothing is 'protected' on the internet.
The basic fact that people are coming here for 'free speech', then trying to place loads of restrictions on it is kind of puzzling for me.
FedUpWithFaith
12th February 2012, 11:00 PM
Forget protecting your precious online persona for a moment (laughable as it is)
If the splinters of RDF could be attached here, searched, referenced and built on, I can see much benefit. If the original stuff from Ratz were here, we could point directly to some of the seeds of this forum on that forum.
I think if I started, I would want to start fresh, but the alternative, though breathtakingly complicated, has some appeal, even if it is bizarre.
I'm sure it's feasible but i don't know what, if any, legal agreements you might need to do this and not risk a lawsuit.
This whole discussion is giving me an idea for an overlay tool that could be applied to a social network site like Facebook or Google+. In fact, something like this might already exist and I'm not aware of it. Imagine a virtual directory structure capable of supporting all our visual forum info linked to Facebook profiles...
The directory could have several superpositioned levels whose privacy would be set by the user. In principle, i don't see why it couldn't serve as a holographic link interact with almost any forum your wanted and tabulate what you want to see. There's your business Cunt. You might make millions. Just gimme a royalty when you do. LOL
If the splinters of RDF could be attached here, searched, referenced and built on, I can see much benefit. If the original stuff from Ratz were here, we could point directly to some of the seeds of this forum on that forum.
I think if I started, I would want to start fresh, but the alternative, though breathtakingly complicated, has some appeal, even if it is bizarre.
I'm sure it's feasible but i don't know what, if any, legal agreements you might need to do this and not risk a lawsuit.
This whole discussion is giving me an idea for an overlay tool that could be applied to a social network site like Facebook or Google+. In fact, something like this might already exist and I'm not aware of it. Imagine a virtual directory structure capable of supporting all our visual forum info linked to Facebook profiles...
The directory could have several superpositioned levels whose privacy would be set by the user. In principle, i don't see why it couldn't serve as a holographic link interact with almost any forum your wanted and tabulate what you want to see. There's your business Cunt. You might make millions. Just gimme a royalty when you do. LOL
divagreen
12th February 2012, 11:06 PM
By 'threatened to do this', do you mean where I asked if everyone could?
I meant this:
If this board adopted democracy, I would have to make another. I didn't intend to make the freedom from banning or limits on posting subject to vote.
Seriously, Exi5tentialist, I have said several times - this is NOT a democracy and none of us owners intended it to be.
I don't expect Elouise to take all the flak, so I will gladly take credit/blame for this position if you will just tell me why I should open things up to democracy.
I don't see any reason yet (29 pages in)
When I said "threaten" to open another forum if you did not get your way, I meant exactly that with respect to the bold. If you meant something other than if this board had a more democratic slant than you would pack up your toys and leave and start another forum, then my apologies. I can only go by what you said. :dunno:
I am having a tough time seeing where I threatened anything. You however, are starting to be memorable as an ass.This is my online dictionary for threaten:
threaten |ˈTHretn|
verb [ reporting verb ]
state one's intention to take hostile action against someone in retribution for something done or not done: [ with obj. ] : the unions threatened a general strike^This is in the context that I meant it with regards to the bold earlier. If you meant something else, then please elaborate cos I think I might have misunderstood you.
It looks an awful lot like you are accusing me of things just to make your argument. My argument about what? About you taking my posts and using them to start another site? ISN'T THIS WHAT YOU WERE CONSIDERING DOING???? If not, then I apologise.
So you don't mind if the whole world steals and possibly misrepresents your posts, but somehow if the admin team here chose to make it easy for everyone to back this up and use it in other ways, you would be offended?I would feel this way about any admin on any site that I joined where there was a misrepresentation of what the end result of what you signed up for. Go nuts parsing that one cos I think that you just don't get it.
I kind of like ANY idea which levels the playing field between the owners and posters (except for those core items of no banning/no mothering). We have a disagreement, and to me, two opinions do not equal even one fact.
Fact is, anyone registered or not here could take everything and misuse it. You want to forbid a possibly functional improvement because someone here might misuse it?I like the ideas about leveling the playing field between owners and posters too! I think that FedUp, Exi and others made great points on how to do that! :cheer:
Let me know when you have a reasonable position, would you? I would like to read it.So because you do not understand my position, you are going to dismiss what I say. Nice.
Do you have any idea what my 'new forum' would look like? Let me give you a bit of a breakdown as to how it would go, based on my small forum experience to date...
First, I would ask some people I respect to help me plan. I don't know...maybe some folks who had demonstrated an understanding of the particularly ugly problems I have witnessed at other forums. At that point, I would begin taking on their advice. Probably adding people to the discussion who they thought could help.
By the end, it would be less 'my' forum and more of a group effort. Might find a cool name for it. Maybe...I don't know...MindRomp.
Here we are.
You don't see anything to inspire you to join 'm'y new forum? Okay, but you DID join, and you DO see value. If 'I' made a forum, this is what it would be like. This is certainly not all mine, but I did hand-pick the first few 'advisors'. I then took as much of their advice as I could understand. They are a good group partly because I did not just open it up to a democratic vote, but to discussion and accord. They didn't outnumber me on issues of disagreement - they convinced me that their way was better. I hope I convinced them that some of my ways are better, too. One place I am pleased to have contributed is the choice of software. I still prefer phpbb, but the volunteer we needed was more comfortable working in this platform. I am glad to support giving her the tools she prefers. I think others of the group also had a preference for phpbb but accepted my reasoning.
If you understand why I let the decision (which went against me) go through about not operating like a business, while still voicing strong opposition, you will understand that I can disagree with a position while still respecting it.
Your accusations don't look at all respectful to me.When you get over your butthurt that I am not comfortable with an admin or anybody else on this site taking my posts and putting them elsewhere as if I had been posting on another site all along as if I had joined as a willing member all along, then I suppose we can talk. At this point, I can't tell if your ignorance is willful or not or whether it is based on a technical issue or an ethical one. I really cannot tell.
eta: oh hai, there were a bunch of responses in the time that I was making my own.
I meant this:
If this board adopted democracy, I would have to make another. I didn't intend to make the freedom from banning or limits on posting subject to vote.
Seriously, Exi5tentialist, I have said several times - this is NOT a democracy and none of us owners intended it to be.
I don't expect Elouise to take all the flak, so I will gladly take credit/blame for this position if you will just tell me why I should open things up to democracy.
I don't see any reason yet (29 pages in)
When I said "threaten" to open another forum if you did not get your way, I meant exactly that with respect to the bold. If you meant something other than if this board had a more democratic slant than you would pack up your toys and leave and start another forum, then my apologies. I can only go by what you said. :dunno:
I am having a tough time seeing where I threatened anything. You however, are starting to be memorable as an ass.This is my online dictionary for threaten:
threaten |ˈTHretn|
verb [ reporting verb ]
state one's intention to take hostile action against someone in retribution for something done or not done: [ with obj. ] : the unions threatened a general strike^This is in the context that I meant it with regards to the bold earlier. If you meant something else, then please elaborate cos I think I might have misunderstood you.
It looks an awful lot like you are accusing me of things just to make your argument. My argument about what? About you taking my posts and using them to start another site? ISN'T THIS WHAT YOU WERE CONSIDERING DOING???? If not, then I apologise.
So you don't mind if the whole world steals and possibly misrepresents your posts, but somehow if the admin team here chose to make it easy for everyone to back this up and use it in other ways, you would be offended?I would feel this way about any admin on any site that I joined where there was a misrepresentation of what the end result of what you signed up for. Go nuts parsing that one cos I think that you just don't get it.
I kind of like ANY idea which levels the playing field between the owners and posters (except for those core items of no banning/no mothering). We have a disagreement, and to me, two opinions do not equal even one fact.
Fact is, anyone registered or not here could take everything and misuse it. You want to forbid a possibly functional improvement because someone here might misuse it?I like the ideas about leveling the playing field between owners and posters too! I think that FedUp, Exi and others made great points on how to do that! :cheer:
Let me know when you have a reasonable position, would you? I would like to read it.So because you do not understand my position, you are going to dismiss what I say. Nice.
Do you have any idea what my 'new forum' would look like? Let me give you a bit of a breakdown as to how it would go, based on my small forum experience to date...
First, I would ask some people I respect to help me plan. I don't know...maybe some folks who had demonstrated an understanding of the particularly ugly problems I have witnessed at other forums. At that point, I would begin taking on their advice. Probably adding people to the discussion who they thought could help.
By the end, it would be less 'my' forum and more of a group effort. Might find a cool name for it. Maybe...I don't know...MindRomp.
Here we are.
You don't see anything to inspire you to join 'm'y new forum? Okay, but you DID join, and you DO see value. If 'I' made a forum, this is what it would be like. This is certainly not all mine, but I did hand-pick the first few 'advisors'. I then took as much of their advice as I could understand. They are a good group partly because I did not just open it up to a democratic vote, but to discussion and accord. They didn't outnumber me on issues of disagreement - they convinced me that their way was better. I hope I convinced them that some of my ways are better, too. One place I am pleased to have contributed is the choice of software. I still prefer phpbb, but the volunteer we needed was more comfortable working in this platform. I am glad to support giving her the tools she prefers. I think others of the group also had a preference for phpbb but accepted my reasoning.
If you understand why I let the decision (which went against me) go through about not operating like a business, while still voicing strong opposition, you will understand that I can disagree with a position while still respecting it.
Your accusations don't look at all respectful to me.When you get over your butthurt that I am not comfortable with an admin or anybody else on this site taking my posts and putting them elsewhere as if I had been posting on another site all along as if I had joined as a willing member all along, then I suppose we can talk. At this point, I can't tell if your ignorance is willful or not or whether it is based on a technical issue or an ethical one. I really cannot tell.
eta: oh hai, there were a bunch of responses in the time that I was making my own.
Linus
12th February 2012, 11:12 PM
Linus, what takes dedication and devotion today, will be a couple of drunken clicks 4 or 8 years from now.
Nothing is 'protected' on the internet.
The basic fact that people are coming here for 'free speech', then trying to place loads of restrictions on it is kind of puzzling for me.
Let's put it this way, then: I'm willing gamble that no outsider will find MindRomp significant enough to want to copy and modify, either for purposes of malicious trolling or sincere, but bizarre, desire to seed a new forum. Perhaps there's e.g. a little Nazi out there who will copy MindRomp and use it to seed StormFrontRomp, so that it will look like "Linus" (a username tied to any personally identifiable info he let slip in weak moments) was a relatively early arrival to that forum. But I'm willing to gamble that there isn't such a person out there. Or, alternatively, that this form of trolling will be so common that nobody trusts vBulletin forums to not be weird chimeras stiched together by trolls.
Nothing is 'protected' on the internet.
The basic fact that people are coming here for 'free speech', then trying to place loads of restrictions on it is kind of puzzling for me.
Let's put it this way, then: I'm willing gamble that no outsider will find MindRomp significant enough to want to copy and modify, either for purposes of malicious trolling or sincere, but bizarre, desire to seed a new forum. Perhaps there's e.g. a little Nazi out there who will copy MindRomp and use it to seed StormFrontRomp, so that it will look like "Linus" (a username tied to any personally identifiable info he let slip in weak moments) was a relatively early arrival to that forum. But I'm willing to gamble that there isn't such a person out there. Or, alternatively, that this form of trolling will be so common that nobody trusts vBulletin forums to not be weird chimeras stiched together by trolls.
oblivion
12th February 2012, 11:22 PM
Forget protecting your precious online persona for a moment (laughable as it is)
If the splinters of RDF could be attached here, searched, referenced and built on, I can see much benefit. If the original stuff from Ratz were here, we could point directly to some of the seeds of this forum on that forum.
I think if I started, I would want to start fresh, but the alternative, though breathtakingly complicated, has some appeal, even if it is bizarre.
The way we would do this if the threads were archived here would be via links and copy/paste or quote. For RDF data itself, I don't think quote is available (I haven't checked tbh - I was not a contributor at RDF), but posting a link and a copypaste works the same way. For sites that are still up and running, quote is also an option. I'm not sure I really understand what would be facilitated if we had the content archived on our server. Are you thinking that we'd load our database with all the posts and thread info so that they would function as threads on MindRomp?
If we did that, we'd instantaneously become a huge site with a big storage bill - and 130 active members.
On that level - the start up cost and the ongoing costs when the rate of our long term membership growth is uncertain - this doesn't make sense here. I don't think it would make sense for any startup.
The fact that the content exists somewhere, and is accessible is good enough for me (as a consumer of that content)
If the splinters of RDF could be attached here, searched, referenced and built on, I can see much benefit. If the original stuff from Ratz were here, we could point directly to some of the seeds of this forum on that forum.
I think if I started, I would want to start fresh, but the alternative, though breathtakingly complicated, has some appeal, even if it is bizarre.
The way we would do this if the threads were archived here would be via links and copy/paste or quote. For RDF data itself, I don't think quote is available (I haven't checked tbh - I was not a contributor at RDF), but posting a link and a copypaste works the same way. For sites that are still up and running, quote is also an option. I'm not sure I really understand what would be facilitated if we had the content archived on our server. Are you thinking that we'd load our database with all the posts and thread info so that they would function as threads on MindRomp?
If we did that, we'd instantaneously become a huge site with a big storage bill - and 130 active members.
On that level - the start up cost and the ongoing costs when the rate of our long term membership growth is uncertain - this doesn't make sense here. I don't think it would make sense for any startup.
The fact that the content exists somewhere, and is accessible is good enough for me (as a consumer of that content)
Cunt
12th February 2012, 11:31 PM
By 'threatened to do this', do you mean where I asked if everyone could?
I meant this:
If this board adopted democracy, I would have to make another. I didn't intend to make the freedom from banning or limits on posting subject to vote.
Seriously, Exi5tentialist, I have said several times - this is NOT a democracy and none of us owners intended it to be.
I don't expect Elouise to take all the flak, so I will gladly take credit/blame for this position if you will just tell me why I should open things up to democracy.
I don't see any reason yet (29 pages in)
When I said "threaten" to open another forum if you did not get your way, I meant exactly that with respect to the bold. If you meant something other than if this board had a more democratic slant than you would pack up your toys and leave and start another forum, then my apologies. I can only go by what you said. :dunno:
I am having a tough time seeing where I threatened anything. You however, are starting to be memorable as an ass.This is my online dictionary for threaten:
threaten |ˈTHretn|
verb [ reporting verb ]
state one's intention to take hostile action against someone in retribution for something done or not done: [ with obj. ] : the unions threatened a general strike^This is in the context that I meant it with regards to the bold earlier. If you meant something else, then please elaborate cos I think I might have misunderstood you.
I never threatened to take all the posts from here.
And since when is creating a new forum a 'hostile act'?
It looks an awful lot like you are accusing me of things just to make your argument. My argument about what? About you taking my posts and using them to start another site? ISN'T THIS WHAT YOU WERE CONSIDERING DOING???? If not, then I apologise. Accepted. AND fuck off.
So because you do not understand my position, you are going to dismiss what I say. Nice. What you are 'afraid' of, is someone stealing your posts and impersonating you on the net (basically).
This could be done with or without sharing the database. Oh, and easier every year (if it seems impractical right now)
That's why it seems so unreasonable to me.
Your accusations don't look at all respectful to me.
When you get over your butthurt that I am not comfortable with an admin or anybody else on this site taking my posts and putting them elsewhere as if I had been posting on another site all along as if I had joined as a willing member all along, then I suppose we can talk.This can happen to all this stuff right now.
No shit.
Even without anyone at this forum being willing.
The product of freedom and security, in many cases, is a constant. More of one will mean less of another. If you want your writing/persona protected, don't put it out where people can copy it.
At this point, I can't tell if your ignorance is willful or not or whether it is based on a technical issue or an ethical one. I really cannot tell.
Without ever signing in to my admin account, I could make a forum and copy all your posts over to it. With your name.
So what is it you think I don't understand? That you think because some might steal we should treat everyone like thieves?
I meant this:
If this board adopted democracy, I would have to make another. I didn't intend to make the freedom from banning or limits on posting subject to vote.
Seriously, Exi5tentialist, I have said several times - this is NOT a democracy and none of us owners intended it to be.
I don't expect Elouise to take all the flak, so I will gladly take credit/blame for this position if you will just tell me why I should open things up to democracy.
I don't see any reason yet (29 pages in)
When I said "threaten" to open another forum if you did not get your way, I meant exactly that with respect to the bold. If you meant something other than if this board had a more democratic slant than you would pack up your toys and leave and start another forum, then my apologies. I can only go by what you said. :dunno:
I am having a tough time seeing where I threatened anything. You however, are starting to be memorable as an ass.This is my online dictionary for threaten:
threaten |ˈTHretn|
verb [ reporting verb ]
state one's intention to take hostile action against someone in retribution for something done or not done: [ with obj. ] : the unions threatened a general strike^This is in the context that I meant it with regards to the bold earlier. If you meant something else, then please elaborate cos I think I might have misunderstood you.
I never threatened to take all the posts from here.
And since when is creating a new forum a 'hostile act'?
It looks an awful lot like you are accusing me of things just to make your argument. My argument about what? About you taking my posts and using them to start another site? ISN'T THIS WHAT YOU WERE CONSIDERING DOING???? If not, then I apologise. Accepted. AND fuck off.
So because you do not understand my position, you are going to dismiss what I say. Nice. What you are 'afraid' of, is someone stealing your posts and impersonating you on the net (basically).
This could be done with or without sharing the database. Oh, and easier every year (if it seems impractical right now)
That's why it seems so unreasonable to me.
Your accusations don't look at all respectful to me.
When you get over your butthurt that I am not comfortable with an admin or anybody else on this site taking my posts and putting them elsewhere as if I had been posting on another site all along as if I had joined as a willing member all along, then I suppose we can talk.This can happen to all this stuff right now.
No shit.
Even without anyone at this forum being willing.
The product of freedom and security, in many cases, is a constant. More of one will mean less of another. If you want your writing/persona protected, don't put it out where people can copy it.
At this point, I can't tell if your ignorance is willful or not or whether it is based on a technical issue or an ethical one. I really cannot tell.
Without ever signing in to my admin account, I could make a forum and copy all your posts over to it. With your name.
So what is it you think I don't understand? That you think because some might steal we should treat everyone like thieves?
Mantisdreamz
12th February 2012, 11:32 PM
It's a good question. If the god of RD.net – arguably the most unpleasant character in all forumdum, jealous and proud of it, a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak, a vindictive, bloodthirsty forum cleanser and a megalomaniacal and capriciously malevolent bully – had handed over the forum's data, whole cloth, for a resurrection of something resembling the original, I would not have objected to allowing my vacuous content (posted under my real name, by the way) to go with it. However, if JT (PBUH) had handed the data over to WeGuzzleHitlerJiz.net, I would have sued their asses.
:hehe:
If Mind Romp died, re-boot it and take me with, but I want the option of re-registering. If I choose not to, I don't want to exist there. *snip*That makes sense. Is it easy to delete all posts of a member?
:hehe:
If Mind Romp died, re-boot it and take me with, but I want the option of re-registering. If I choose not to, I don't want to exist there. *snip*That makes sense. Is it easy to delete all posts of a member?
PermanentlyEphemeral
12th February 2012, 11:33 PM
Forget protecting your precious online persona for a moment (laughable as it is)
If the splinters of RDF could be attached here, searched, referenced and built on, I can see much benefit. If the original stuff from Ratz were here, we could point directly to some of the seeds of this forum on that forum.
I think if I started, I would want to start fresh, but the alternative, though breathtakingly complicated, has some appeal, even if it is bizarre.
What are the benefits?
To make this place like a Canadian Legion with old people remembering the old days?
People come and go and that will never change.
Hmm If I could only think of a couple of words to express things forever being temporary before they change.
If the splinters of RDF could be attached here, searched, referenced and built on, I can see much benefit. If the original stuff from Ratz were here, we could point directly to some of the seeds of this forum on that forum.
I think if I started, I would want to start fresh, but the alternative, though breathtakingly complicated, has some appeal, even if it is bizarre.
What are the benefits?
To make this place like a Canadian Legion with old people remembering the old days?
People come and go and that will never change.
Hmm If I could only think of a couple of words to express things forever being temporary before they change.
Teshi
12th February 2012, 11:36 PM
Linus, what takes dedication and devotion today, will be a couple of drunken clicks 4 or 8 years from now.
Nothing is 'protected' on the internet.
Oh, well, if something will be possible in the near future according to your technologically know-nothing imagination, that totally legitimizes abusing your db access to do it now!
Nothing is 'protected' on the internet.
Oh, well, if something will be possible in the near future according to your technologically know-nothing imagination, that totally legitimizes abusing your db access to do it now!
PermanentlyEphemeral
12th February 2012, 11:37 PM
It's a good question. If the god of RD.net – arguably the most unpleasant character in all forumdum, jealous and proud of it, a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak, a vindictive, bloodthirsty forum cleanser and a megalomaniacal and capriciously malevolent bully – had handed over the forum's data, whole cloth, for a resurrection of something resembling the original, I would not have objected to allowing my vacuous content (posted under my real name, by the way) to go with it. However, if JT (PBUH) had handed the data over to WeGuzzleHitlerJiz.net, I would have sued their asses.
:hehe:
If Mind Romp died, re-boot it and take me with, but I want the option of re-registering. If I choose not to, I don't want to exist there. *snip*That makes sense. Is it easy to delete all posts of a member?
I don't see any sense at all.
Why not just start a new forum?
:hehe:
If Mind Romp died, re-boot it and take me with, but I want the option of re-registering. If I choose not to, I don't want to exist there. *snip*That makes sense. Is it easy to delete all posts of a member?
I don't see any sense at all.
Why not just start a new forum?
PermanentlyEphemeral
12th February 2012, 11:40 PM
[Without ever signing in to my admin account, I could make a forum and copy all your posts over to it. With your name.
So what is it you think I don't understand? That you think because some might steal we should treat everyone like thieves?
What if the FBI showed up at your place asking you had posted on NAMBLA type site?
What if someone found your posts there and didn't tell you, just simply found you guilty and had nothing more to do with you?
So what is it you think I don't understand? That you think because some might steal we should treat everyone like thieves?
What if the FBI showed up at your place asking you had posted on NAMBLA type site?
What if someone found your posts there and didn't tell you, just simply found you guilty and had nothing more to do with you?
charlou
12th February 2012, 11:43 PM
The fact that the content exists somewhere, and is accessible is good enough for me (as a consumer of that content)
This. And the same goes for the other forums mentioned. If people want to access content of other sites/archives we can go directly to those sites and bookmark them (as we do now). The only forum I'd like to archive here is the temporary "Discuss" forum where we discussed the creation of MindRomp.
We could have a ready links page here, though.
Cunt, I see your point about free access across the internet, but I have an ethical stance that an individual's consent should be sought before doing what I understand you to be suggesting. And people need to trust the admins here to not do such a thing against their consent. I certainly give my assurance that I would not, and would argue strongly against any of the other admins doing so.
An exception might be if someone accidentally or maliciously destroyed the content of the database and the admins wanted to restore it on a new site so members could continue MindRomp in its present form.
This. And the same goes for the other forums mentioned. If people want to access content of other sites/archives we can go directly to those sites and bookmark them (as we do now). The only forum I'd like to archive here is the temporary "Discuss" forum where we discussed the creation of MindRomp.
We could have a ready links page here, though.
Cunt, I see your point about free access across the internet, but I have an ethical stance that an individual's consent should be sought before doing what I understand you to be suggesting. And people need to trust the admins here to not do such a thing against their consent. I certainly give my assurance that I would not, and would argue strongly against any of the other admins doing so.
An exception might be if someone accidentally or maliciously destroyed the content of the database and the admins wanted to restore it on a new site so members could continue MindRomp in its present form.
Cunt
12th February 2012, 11:43 PM
Linus, what takes dedication and devotion today, will be a couple of drunken clicks 4 or 8 years from now.
Nothing is 'protected' on the internet.
Oh, well, if something will be possible in the near future according to your technologically know-nothing imagination, that totally legitimizes abusing your db access to do it now!
Again, fuck you.
I am not abusing my db access. I am talking about it you ignorant fuck.
But go on accusing...it's a GREAT way for me to learn things about you.
Nothing is 'protected' on the internet.
Oh, well, if something will be possible in the near future according to your technologically know-nothing imagination, that totally legitimizes abusing your db access to do it now!
Again, fuck you.
I am not abusing my db access. I am talking about it you ignorant fuck.
But go on accusing...it's a GREAT way for me to learn things about you.
Cunt
12th February 2012, 11:46 PM
An exception might be if someone accidentally or maliciously destroyed the content of the database and the admins wanted to restore it on a new site so members could continue MindRomp in its present form.
I would gladly say fuck ALL your proposed policies in favour of a few clear-headed accountable people.
What shocks me is how protective people are acting over content that they are sharing on a FREE service. Freedom x security....?
I would gladly say fuck ALL your proposed policies in favour of a few clear-headed accountable people.
What shocks me is how protective people are acting over content that they are sharing on a FREE service. Freedom x security....?
charlou
12th February 2012, 11:50 PM
Linus, what takes dedication and devotion today, will be a couple of drunken clicks 4 or 8 years from now.
Nothing is 'protected' on the internet.
Oh, well, if something will be possible in the near future according to your technologically know-nothing imagination, that totally legitimizes abusing your db access to do it now!
Again, fuck you.
I am not abusing my db access. I am talking about it you ignorant fuck.
But go on accusing...it's a GREAT way for me to learn things about you.
Teshi and others are expressing their concern that you might do what you're suggesting regardless of what others want. Getting abusive about it may not ease their minds.
That said, knowing you somewhat better than they do, I'm not concerned that you would do what you're suggesting unless you had full support for the idea, amiright?
Nothing is 'protected' on the internet.
Oh, well, if something will be possible in the near future according to your technologically know-nothing imagination, that totally legitimizes abusing your db access to do it now!
Again, fuck you.
I am not abusing my db access. I am talking about it you ignorant fuck.
But go on accusing...it's a GREAT way for me to learn things about you.
Teshi and others are expressing their concern that you might do what you're suggesting regardless of what others want. Getting abusive about it may not ease their minds.
That said, knowing you somewhat better than they do, I'm not concerned that you would do what you're suggesting unless you had full support for the idea, amiright?
charlou
12th February 2012, 11:53 PM
Cunt, you're coming across as trying to bully people into agreeing with your ideas.
Adenosine
12th February 2012, 11:55 PM
The idea of copying the database to start a new site doesn't make much sense to me. If MR suddenly splinters in the future, why wouldn't the fora that split off from MR just start from scratch?
This. This is how, in my understanding, forums work.
Forget protecting your precious online persona for a moment (laughable as it is)
If the splinters of RDF could be attached here, searched, referenced and built on, I can see much benefit. If the original stuff from Ratz were here, we could point directly to some of the seeds of this forum on that forum.
I think if I started, I would want to start fresh, but the alternative, though breathtakingly complicated, has some appeal, even if it is bizarre.
It is too bizarre and I believe it goes against our core value. I'll explain why below.
Linus, what takes dedication and devotion today, will be a couple of drunken clicks 4 or 8 years from now.
Nothing is 'protected' on the internet.
The basic fact that people are coming here for 'free speech', then trying to place loads of restrictions on it is kind of puzzling for me.
This is my idea of free speech.
You say something, you own it, you stand by it or don't. But they are your words and you have sole ownership. The only case where this differs is if you have a bigger claim on some words that the person that says them. And that only happens in one case, personally identifying information. Where the words mean more to you than to anyone else in the world.
So here's the point. Mindromp doesn't own them, Cunt doesn't own them, I don't own them. The people who say them own them. And they have chosen to come here and say them. They have created a presence here and they have exercised their right of free speech.
Copying the forum would be denying ownership of the posts. It would, in effect, be stealing. If we are going to maintain that people are responsible for what they post here then it's hypocritical for us to take that responsibility away with their posts.
The members wouldn't have a presence on the new forum. Sure, some would join, but what about the ones that didn't? There would be new members who would find a topic interesting, respond to a post and then be told that the person that made that post isn't even a member of MR v2.0. They'd make this face :ohmy:.
FUWF, I have no doubt that there are sites and forums that can and do take content from their members. I have no doubt that in four to eight years you can copy and migrate swathes of the internet but that doesn't mean that we should do it too. It actually means the opposite. We should be standing against the tide of personal information being traded. Of people's content being traded.
Here's a cheery thought.
We open the database up and invite all and sundry to copy it all over the place. Polonius copies it to rational.proboards. Suddenly his backwater is filled with deep, insightful discussion and you have all posted on his forum.
Next scenario. We get someone who wants to start a forum and wants some interesting discussions to kick it off. In all the splintering and cloning of MR v1.0 someone with no ethics gets hold of the database and starts selling it. How much ownership do we have over our words then?
This. This is how, in my understanding, forums work.
Forget protecting your precious online persona for a moment (laughable as it is)
If the splinters of RDF could be attached here, searched, referenced and built on, I can see much benefit. If the original stuff from Ratz were here, we could point directly to some of the seeds of this forum on that forum.
I think if I started, I would want to start fresh, but the alternative, though breathtakingly complicated, has some appeal, even if it is bizarre.
It is too bizarre and I believe it goes against our core value. I'll explain why below.
Linus, what takes dedication and devotion today, will be a couple of drunken clicks 4 or 8 years from now.
Nothing is 'protected' on the internet.
The basic fact that people are coming here for 'free speech', then trying to place loads of restrictions on it is kind of puzzling for me.
This is my idea of free speech.
You say something, you own it, you stand by it or don't. But they are your words and you have sole ownership. The only case where this differs is if you have a bigger claim on some words that the person that says them. And that only happens in one case, personally identifying information. Where the words mean more to you than to anyone else in the world.
So here's the point. Mindromp doesn't own them, Cunt doesn't own them, I don't own them. The people who say them own them. And they have chosen to come here and say them. They have created a presence here and they have exercised their right of free speech.
Copying the forum would be denying ownership of the posts. It would, in effect, be stealing. If we are going to maintain that people are responsible for what they post here then it's hypocritical for us to take that responsibility away with their posts.
The members wouldn't have a presence on the new forum. Sure, some would join, but what about the ones that didn't? There would be new members who would find a topic interesting, respond to a post and then be told that the person that made that post isn't even a member of MR v2.0. They'd make this face :ohmy:.
FUWF, I have no doubt that there are sites and forums that can and do take content from their members. I have no doubt that in four to eight years you can copy and migrate swathes of the internet but that doesn't mean that we should do it too. It actually means the opposite. We should be standing against the tide of personal information being traded. Of people's content being traded.
Here's a cheery thought.
We open the database up and invite all and sundry to copy it all over the place. Polonius copies it to rational.proboards. Suddenly his backwater is filled with deep, insightful discussion and you have all posted on his forum.
Next scenario. We get someone who wants to start a forum and wants some interesting discussions to kick it off. In all the splintering and cloning of MR v1.0 someone with no ethics gets hold of the database and starts selling it. How much ownership do we have over our words then?
FedUpWithFaith
12th February 2012, 11:56 PM
Sometimes I wish I were a real troll. I'd have so much fun with this thread.
Mantisdreamz
12th February 2012, 11:56 PM
It's a good question. If the god of RD.net – arguably the most unpleasant character in all forumdum, jealous and proud of it, a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak, a vindictive, bloodthirsty forum cleanser and a megalomaniacal and capriciously malevolent bully – had handed over the forum's data, whole cloth, for a resurrection of something resembling the original, I would not have objected to allowing my vacuous content (posted under my real name, by the way) to go with it. However, if JT (PBUH) had handed the data over to WeGuzzleHitlerJiz.net, I would have sued their asses.
:hehe:
If Mind Romp died, re-boot it and take me with, but I want the option of re-registering. If I choose not to, I don't want to exist there. *snip*That makes sense. Is it easy to delete all posts of a member?
I don't see any sense at all.
Why not just start a new forum?
hmm, yea. That's true... but for whatever reason, if an admin wanted to take the threads and transfer them to a new forum, as long as they give everyone the option to say yes or no to taking their posts along with them.. then, there's no problem.
And maybe an admin of a new forum would just want threads and posts already in place as a starting point. Giving new members a chance to see possible interesting threads that they can revive or add to.
:hehe:
If Mind Romp died, re-boot it and take me with, but I want the option of re-registering. If I choose not to, I don't want to exist there. *snip*That makes sense. Is it easy to delete all posts of a member?
I don't see any sense at all.
Why not just start a new forum?
hmm, yea. That's true... but for whatever reason, if an admin wanted to take the threads and transfer them to a new forum, as long as they give everyone the option to say yes or no to taking their posts along with them.. then, there's no problem.
And maybe an admin of a new forum would just want threads and posts already in place as a starting point. Giving new members a chance to see possible interesting threads that they can revive or add to.
Cunt
12th February 2012, 11:58 PM
It's part of the reason I am pissed that they keep accusing me. Fuck them. If they can't take being told they are fucking ignorant, they shouldn't read responses to their ignorance.
I took great pains to make sure not to look like I was trying to take control. To the point of fucking ridiculous. I carefully wrote that I was asking about the subject (to oblivion) but not asking her to DO anything. Then the fucking losers start accusing because I still don't agree with them.
I have learned much about Teshi and Divagreen. If they are scared I'll do something bad, fuck them. I am not responsible for the safety of their precious online personas. I won't pretend I am, either.
If you want to see how much I throw my weight around, look to my admin actions. They should be reasonably public.
I took great pains to make sure not to look like I was trying to take control. To the point of fucking ridiculous. I carefully wrote that I was asking about the subject (to oblivion) but not asking her to DO anything. Then the fucking losers start accusing because I still don't agree with them.
I have learned much about Teshi and Divagreen. If they are scared I'll do something bad, fuck them. I am not responsible for the safety of their precious online personas. I won't pretend I am, either.
If you want to see how much I throw my weight around, look to my admin actions. They should be reasonably public.
FedUpWithFaith
13th February 2012, 12:01 AM
Eloise,
You missed my point above. I was referring to shit beyond any one forum. This is all a pretty circular argument.
It still comes down to the questions I posed in this post (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?p=18827#post18827)that it seems nobody is really considering.
You missed my point above. I was referring to shit beyond any one forum. This is all a pretty circular argument.
It still comes down to the questions I posed in this post (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?p=18827#post18827)that it seems nobody is really considering.
Cunt
13th February 2012, 12:03 AM
Next scenario. We get someone who wants to start a forum and wants some interesting discussions to kick it off. In all the splintering and cloning of MR v1.0 someone with no ethics gets hold of the database and starts selling it. How much ownership do we have over our words then?
As I said, anyone could.
I don't think it's a huge deal, but an interesting idea to explore. Said as much earlier. I don't fucking care.
As I said, anyone could.
I don't think it's a huge deal, but an interesting idea to explore. Said as much earlier. I don't fucking care.
charlou
13th February 2012, 12:04 AM
This is my idea of free speech.
You say something, you own it, you stand by it or don't. But they are your words and you have sole ownership. The only case where this differs is if you have a bigger claim on some words that the person that says them. And that only happens in one case, personally identifying information. Where the words mean more to you than to anyone else in the world.
So here's the point. Mindromp doesn't own them, Cunt doesn't own them, I don't own them. The people who say them own them. And they have chosen to come here and say them. They have created a presence here and they have exercised their right of free speech.
Copying the forum would be denying ownership of the posts. It would, in effect, be stealing. If we are going to maintain that people are responsible for what they post here then it's hypocritical for us to take that responsibility away with their posts.
The members wouldn't have a presence on the new forum. Sure, some would join, but what about the ones that didn't? There would be new members who would find a topic interesting, respond to a post and then be told that the person that made that post isn't even a member of MR v2.0. They'd make this face :ohmy:.
FUWF, I have no doubt that there are sites and forums that can and do take content from their members. I have no doubt that in four to eight years you can copy and migrate swathes of the internet but that doesn't mean that we should do it too. It actually means the opposite. We should be standing against the tide of personal information being traded. Of people's content being traded.
Here's a cheery thought.
We open the database up and invite all and sundry to copy it all over the place. Polonius copies it to rational.proboards. Suddenly his backwater is filled with deep, insightful discussion and you have all posted on his forum.
Next scenario. We get someone who wants to start a forum and wants some interesting discussions to kick it off. In all the splintering and cloning of MR v1.0 someone with no ethics gets hold of the database and starts selling it. How much ownership do we have over our words then?
Yes.
Just because we can steal, does not mean we should. I like the neighbour's big leafy ficus on his porch and think it would look good on my porch too ... so I'll make the effort and grow my own ficus.
You say something, you own it, you stand by it or don't. But they are your words and you have sole ownership. The only case where this differs is if you have a bigger claim on some words that the person that says them. And that only happens in one case, personally identifying information. Where the words mean more to you than to anyone else in the world.
So here's the point. Mindromp doesn't own them, Cunt doesn't own them, I don't own them. The people who say them own them. And they have chosen to come here and say them. They have created a presence here and they have exercised their right of free speech.
Copying the forum would be denying ownership of the posts. It would, in effect, be stealing. If we are going to maintain that people are responsible for what they post here then it's hypocritical for us to take that responsibility away with their posts.
The members wouldn't have a presence on the new forum. Sure, some would join, but what about the ones that didn't? There would be new members who would find a topic interesting, respond to a post and then be told that the person that made that post isn't even a member of MR v2.0. They'd make this face :ohmy:.
FUWF, I have no doubt that there are sites and forums that can and do take content from their members. I have no doubt that in four to eight years you can copy and migrate swathes of the internet but that doesn't mean that we should do it too. It actually means the opposite. We should be standing against the tide of personal information being traded. Of people's content being traded.
Here's a cheery thought.
We open the database up and invite all and sundry to copy it all over the place. Polonius copies it to rational.proboards. Suddenly his backwater is filled with deep, insightful discussion and you have all posted on his forum.
Next scenario. We get someone who wants to start a forum and wants some interesting discussions to kick it off. In all the splintering and cloning of MR v1.0 someone with no ethics gets hold of the database and starts selling it. How much ownership do we have over our words then?
Yes.
Just because we can steal, does not mean we should. I like the neighbour's big leafy ficus on his porch and think it would look good on my porch too ... so I'll make the effort and grow my own ficus.
Teshi
13th February 2012, 12:07 AM
It's part of the reason I am pissed that they keep accusing me. Fuck them. If they can't take being told they are fucking ignorant, they shouldn't read responses to their ignorance.
I took great pains to make sure not to look like I was trying to take control. To the point of fucking ridiculous. I carefully wrote that I was asking about the subject (to oblivion) but not asking her to DO anything. Then the fucking losers start accusing because I still don't agree with them.
I have learned much about Teshi and Divagreen. If they are scared I'll do something bad, fuck them. I am not responsible for the safety of their precious online personas. I won't pretend I am, either.
If you want to see how much I throw my weight around, look to my admin actions. They should be reasonably public.
Who could have predicted that someone with the username "Cunt" would be such a pussy?
I took great pains to make sure not to look like I was trying to take control. To the point of fucking ridiculous. I carefully wrote that I was asking about the subject (to oblivion) but not asking her to DO anything. Then the fucking losers start accusing because I still don't agree with them.
I have learned much about Teshi and Divagreen. If they are scared I'll do something bad, fuck them. I am not responsible for the safety of their precious online personas. I won't pretend I am, either.
If you want to see how much I throw my weight around, look to my admin actions. They should be reasonably public.
Who could have predicted that someone with the username "Cunt" would be such a pussy?
FedUpWithFaith
13th February 2012, 12:07 AM
Eloise,
You missed my point above. I was referring to shit beyond any one forum. This is all a pretty circular argument.
It still comes down to the questions I posed in this post (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?p=18827#post18827)that it seems nobody is really considering.
Sorry the first sentence was for Adenosine, not Elouise, though she may share the same misinterpretation
You missed my point above. I was referring to shit beyond any one forum. This is all a pretty circular argument.
It still comes down to the questions I posed in this post (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?p=18827#post18827)that it seems nobody is really considering.
Sorry the first sentence was for Adenosine, not Elouise, though she may share the same misinterpretation
Adenosine
13th February 2012, 12:09 AM
Eloise,
You missed my point above. I was referring to shit beyond any one forum. This is all a pretty circular argument.
It still comes down to the questions I posed in this post (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?p=18827#post18827)that it seems nobody is really considering.
Sorry the first sentence was for Adenosine, not Elouise, though she may share the same misinterpretation
Sorry, I don't understand. You were referring to privacy on the internet as a whole?
You missed my point above. I was referring to shit beyond any one forum. This is all a pretty circular argument.
It still comes down to the questions I posed in this post (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?p=18827#post18827)that it seems nobody is really considering.
Sorry the first sentence was for Adenosine, not Elouise, though she may share the same misinterpretation
Sorry, I don't understand. You were referring to privacy on the internet as a whole?
Mantisdreamz
13th February 2012, 12:16 AM
I have learned much about Teshi and Divagreen. If they are scared I'll do something bad, fuck them. I am not responsible for the safety of their precious online personas. I won't pretend I am, either.
It's perfectly reasonable to be skeptical of others motives on the internet. I haven't read the entire thread, but I'm sure it's not that it's a concern against you in particular. But a general concern of where posts could end up. You never know.
What if someone who was an admin did want to take posts to a nasty site that some wouldn't want to be associated with?
It's just being careful.
It's perfectly reasonable to be skeptical of others motives on the internet. I haven't read the entire thread, but I'm sure it's not that it's a concern against you in particular. But a general concern of where posts could end up. You never know.
What if someone who was an admin did want to take posts to a nasty site that some wouldn't want to be associated with?
It's just being careful.
charlou
13th February 2012, 12:17 AM
Eloise,
You missed my point above. I was referring to shit beyond any one forum. This is all a pretty circular argument.
It still comes down to the questions I posed in this post (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?p=18827#post18827)that it seems nobody is really considering.
I thought those were interesting, but rhetorical questions .. something to think about if one feels interested or concerned, I guess.
I dunno ... I think a few people keep raising spectres of contention and discussing them as though they're real possibilities ... and I suppose they are ... but my overall impression is that most people here just think of MindRomp as a place to discuss, play and interact freely, like it says on the can, and not get bogged down in what ifs.
You missed my point above. I was referring to shit beyond any one forum. This is all a pretty circular argument.
It still comes down to the questions I posed in this post (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?p=18827#post18827)that it seems nobody is really considering.
I thought those were interesting, but rhetorical questions .. something to think about if one feels interested or concerned, I guess.
I dunno ... I think a few people keep raising spectres of contention and discussing them as though they're real possibilities ... and I suppose they are ... but my overall impression is that most people here just think of MindRomp as a place to discuss, play and interact freely, like it says on the can, and not get bogged down in what ifs.
FedUpWithFaith
13th February 2012, 12:23 AM
Eloise,
You missed my point above. I was referring to shit beyond any one forum. This is all a pretty circular argument.
It still comes down to the questions I posed in this post (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?p=18827#post18827)that it seems nobody is really considering.
Sorry the first sentence was for Adenosine, not Elouise, though she may share the same misinterpretation
Sorry, I don't understand. You were referring to privacy on the internet as a whole?
Yes, most of the fears of people here can't be prevented. Various measures could be used to make them less convenient but that's about it.
If it's mostly an issue of preserving online persona, I see this as somewhat silly but maybe that's just me. I'm not seriously worried that my posts will be co-opted by NAMBLA forums if they exist nor RR, nor some White Supremacy site. I've actually seem a few of my posts from Dawkins re-posted at some religious websites. It made for good fun going after them. It's easy to disavow and can even be a badge of honor of sorts. But it seems like we're taking ourselves way too seriously. When outsiders give a shit, that means we've actually done something worthwhile probably.
For most, I think, inclusion in lots of forums isn't the probelm, it's feeling excluded that feels shitty whether you get banned from a forum you want to stay in or if you resign from a forum that no longer repesents your values. And then all your stuff is left behind. But I never felt my persona was so critical that I felt I had to delete or deface all my posts. They are just forums people. We aren't changing the world.
:facepalm:
You missed my point above. I was referring to shit beyond any one forum. This is all a pretty circular argument.
It still comes down to the questions I posed in this post (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?p=18827#post18827)that it seems nobody is really considering.
Sorry the first sentence was for Adenosine, not Elouise, though she may share the same misinterpretation
Sorry, I don't understand. You were referring to privacy on the internet as a whole?
Yes, most of the fears of people here can't be prevented. Various measures could be used to make them less convenient but that's about it.
If it's mostly an issue of preserving online persona, I see this as somewhat silly but maybe that's just me. I'm not seriously worried that my posts will be co-opted by NAMBLA forums if they exist nor RR, nor some White Supremacy site. I've actually seem a few of my posts from Dawkins re-posted at some religious websites. It made for good fun going after them. It's easy to disavow and can even be a badge of honor of sorts. But it seems like we're taking ourselves way too seriously. When outsiders give a shit, that means we've actually done something worthwhile probably.
For most, I think, inclusion in lots of forums isn't the probelm, it's feeling excluded that feels shitty whether you get banned from a forum you want to stay in or if you resign from a forum that no longer repesents your values. And then all your stuff is left behind. But I never felt my persona was so critical that I felt I had to delete or deface all my posts. They are just forums people. We aren't changing the world.
:facepalm:
FedUpWithFaith
13th February 2012, 12:29 AM
Eloise,
You missed my point above. I was referring to shit beyond any one forum. This is all a pretty circular argument.
It still comes down to the questions I posed in this post (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?p=18827#post18827)that it seems nobody is really considering.
I thought those were interesting, but rhetorical questions .. something to think about if one feels interested or concerned, I guess.
I dunno ... I think a few people keep raising spectres of contention and discussing them as though they're real possibilities ... and I suppose they are ... but my overall impression is that most people here just think of MindRomp as a place to discuss, play and interact freely, like it says on the can, and not get bogged down in what ifs.
Funny, I think we're on the same page. I posed those questions because if you think about them, it's all 6 of 1, half a dozen of the other.
Don't get me wrong, there are lots of pitfalls and dangers but they aren't on the radar screen yet. They're not even near the door to the radar room. I can enjoy pondering these issues but I'd rather see us do something that will make this place interesting enough to want to stay and keep it together as well as grow.
You missed my point above. I was referring to shit beyond any one forum. This is all a pretty circular argument.
It still comes down to the questions I posed in this post (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?p=18827#post18827)that it seems nobody is really considering.
I thought those were interesting, but rhetorical questions .. something to think about if one feels interested or concerned, I guess.
I dunno ... I think a few people keep raising spectres of contention and discussing them as though they're real possibilities ... and I suppose they are ... but my overall impression is that most people here just think of MindRomp as a place to discuss, play and interact freely, like it says on the can, and not get bogged down in what ifs.
Funny, I think we're on the same page. I posed those questions because if you think about them, it's all 6 of 1, half a dozen of the other.
Don't get me wrong, there are lots of pitfalls and dangers but they aren't on the radar screen yet. They're not even near the door to the radar room. I can enjoy pondering these issues but I'd rather see us do something that will make this place interesting enough to want to stay and keep it together as well as grow.
divagreen
13th February 2012, 12:32 AM
Eloise,
You missed my point above. I was referring to shit beyond any one forum. This is all a pretty circular argument.
It still comes down to the questions I posed in this post (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?p=18827#post18827)that it seems nobody is really considering.
I thought those were interesting, but rhetorical questions .. something to think about if one feels interested or concerned, I guess.
I dunno ... I think a few people keep raising spectres of contention and discussing them as though they're real possibilities ... and I suppose they are ... but my overall impression is that most people here just think of MindRomp as a place to discuss, play and interact freely, like it says on the can, and not get bogged down in what ifs.
Was it wrong to take Cunt at his word and that he would be given the tools to do this wrt the OP? Cos I was under the assumption that he could. And would.
Ambiguous placating is not going to answer the question.
You missed my point above. I was referring to shit beyond any one forum. This is all a pretty circular argument.
It still comes down to the questions I posed in this post (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?p=18827#post18827)that it seems nobody is really considering.
I thought those were interesting, but rhetorical questions .. something to think about if one feels interested or concerned, I guess.
I dunno ... I think a few people keep raising spectres of contention and discussing them as though they're real possibilities ... and I suppose they are ... but my overall impression is that most people here just think of MindRomp as a place to discuss, play and interact freely, like it says on the can, and not get bogged down in what ifs.
Was it wrong to take Cunt at his word and that he would be given the tools to do this wrt the OP? Cos I was under the assumption that he could. And would.
Ambiguous placating is not going to answer the question.
Fuzzy
13th February 2012, 12:33 AM
<snip>
If we did that, we'd instantaneously become a huge site with a big storage bill - and 130 active members.
On that level - the start up cost and the ongoing costs when the rate of our long term membership growth is uncertain - this doesn't make sense here. I don't think it would make sense for any startup.
The fact that the content exists somewhere, and is accessible is good enough for me (as a consumer of that content)
By the sounds of it, it would be a waste of resources for something we already have through the magic of links. Likewise for any future MR-splinters.
I don't see anything wrong with post content being copied. I agree with Cunt with regards to the fact that they're pretty much all public, anyway. However, even if Cunt's low-tech Save Page As approach were fully automated, personal data like e-mail and PM's would still be off limits to it. With that in mind, I like Raven's idea of snipping out personal data should any database migration occur.
tl;dr, I don't find the idea as ethically questionable as some seem to, but I do think it would be impractical and pointless. If someone malicious gets the db and decides to sell it, I guess more power to them if they can make money off of my stupid posts about that one time I had insomnia and got so angry about my inability to sleep that I beat up my pillow until I got all tuckered out and fell asleep, finally.
If we did that, we'd instantaneously become a huge site with a big storage bill - and 130 active members.
On that level - the start up cost and the ongoing costs when the rate of our long term membership growth is uncertain - this doesn't make sense here. I don't think it would make sense for any startup.
The fact that the content exists somewhere, and is accessible is good enough for me (as a consumer of that content)
By the sounds of it, it would be a waste of resources for something we already have through the magic of links. Likewise for any future MR-splinters.
I don't see anything wrong with post content being copied. I agree with Cunt with regards to the fact that they're pretty much all public, anyway. However, even if Cunt's low-tech Save Page As approach were fully automated, personal data like e-mail and PM's would still be off limits to it. With that in mind, I like Raven's idea of snipping out personal data should any database migration occur.
tl;dr, I don't find the idea as ethically questionable as some seem to, but I do think it would be impractical and pointless. If someone malicious gets the db and decides to sell it, I guess more power to them if they can make money off of my stupid posts about that one time I had insomnia and got so angry about my inability to sleep that I beat up my pillow until I got all tuckered out and fell asleep, finally.
PermanentlyEphemeral
13th February 2012, 12:41 AM
Eloise,
You missed my point above. I was referring to shit beyond any one forum. This is all a pretty circular argument.
It still comes down to the questions I posed in this post (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?p=18827#post18827)that it seems nobody is really considering.
I thought those were interesting, but rhetorical questions .. something to think about if one feels interested or concerned, I guess.
I dunno ... I think a few people keep raising spectres of contention and discussing them as though they're real possibilities ... and I suppose they are ... but my overall impression is that most people here just think of MindRomp as a place to discuss, play and interact freely, like it says on the can, and not get bogged down in what ifs.
Or worse, what wases.
You missed my point above. I was referring to shit beyond any one forum. This is all a pretty circular argument.
It still comes down to the questions I posed in this post (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?p=18827#post18827)that it seems nobody is really considering.
I thought those were interesting, but rhetorical questions .. something to think about if one feels interested or concerned, I guess.
I dunno ... I think a few people keep raising spectres of contention and discussing them as though they're real possibilities ... and I suppose they are ... but my overall impression is that most people here just think of MindRomp as a place to discuss, play and interact freely, like it says on the can, and not get bogged down in what ifs.
Or worse, what wases.
charlou
13th February 2012, 12:44 AM
Eloise,
You missed my point above. I was referring to shit beyond any one forum. This is all a pretty circular argument.
It still comes down to the questions I posed in this post (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?p=18827#post18827)that it seems nobody is really considering.
I thought those were interesting, but rhetorical questions .. something to think about if one feels interested or concerned, I guess.
I dunno ... I think a few people keep raising spectres of contention and discussing them as though they're real possibilities ... and I suppose they are ... but my overall impression is that most people here just think of MindRomp as a place to discuss, play and interact freely, like it says on the can, and not get bogged down in what ifs.
Was it wrong to take Cunt at his word and that he would be given the tools to do this wrt the OP? Cos I was under the assumption that he could. And would.
Ambiguous placating is not going to answer the question.
Not wrong at all! I'm with you regarding your concern at the suggestion .. but I must defend Cunt insofar as he was only raising the possibility for discussion.
I was referring to the suggestion that taking posts would be necessary in the first place, and various other issues that have been raised.
You missed my point above. I was referring to shit beyond any one forum. This is all a pretty circular argument.
It still comes down to the questions I posed in this post (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?p=18827#post18827)that it seems nobody is really considering.
I thought those were interesting, but rhetorical questions .. something to think about if one feels interested or concerned, I guess.
I dunno ... I think a few people keep raising spectres of contention and discussing them as though they're real possibilities ... and I suppose they are ... but my overall impression is that most people here just think of MindRomp as a place to discuss, play and interact freely, like it says on the can, and not get bogged down in what ifs.
Was it wrong to take Cunt at his word and that he would be given the tools to do this wrt the OP? Cos I was under the assumption that he could. And would.
Ambiguous placating is not going to answer the question.
Not wrong at all! I'm with you regarding your concern at the suggestion .. but I must defend Cunt insofar as he was only raising the possibility for discussion.
I was referring to the suggestion that taking posts would be necessary in the first place, and various other issues that have been raised.
Adenosine
13th February 2012, 12:44 AM
Eloise,
You missed my point above. I was referring to shit beyond any one forum. This is all a pretty circular argument.
It still comes down to the questions I posed in this post (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?p=18827#post18827)that it seems nobody is really considering.
Sorry the first sentence was for Adenosine, not Elouise, though she may share the same misinterpretation
Sorry, I don't understand. You were referring to privacy on the internet as a whole?
Yes, most of the fears of people here can't be prevented. Various measures could be used to make them less convenient but that's about it.
If it's mostly an issue of preserving online persona, I see this as somewhat silly but maybe that's just me. I'm not seriously worried that my posts will be co-opted by NAMBLA forums if they exist nor RR, nor some White Supremacy site. I've actually seem a few of my posts from Dawkins re-posted at some religious websites. It made for good fun going after them. It's easy to disavow and can even be a badge of honor of sorts. But it seems like we're taking ourselves way too seriously. When outsiders give a shit, that means we've actually done something worthwhile probably.
For most, I think, inclusion in lots of forums isn't the probelm, it's feeling excluded that feels shitty whether you get banned from a forum you want to stay in or if you resign from a forum that no longer repesents your values. And then all your stuff is left behind. But I never felt my persona was so critical that I felt I had to delete or deface all my posts. They are just forums people. We aren't changing the world.
:facepalm:
Absolutely. If someone gave enough of a shit about what we write then yes, they can come and copy posts elsewhere and applaud or ridicule to their heart's content.
But we shouldn't facilitate that . Because, as I said, I believe it goes against our core ethos.
We may not be changing the world but we stand for something and that something should be supported.
The bolded bit has nothing to do with copying the forum.
You missed my point above. I was referring to shit beyond any one forum. This is all a pretty circular argument.
It still comes down to the questions I posed in this post (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?p=18827#post18827)that it seems nobody is really considering.
Sorry the first sentence was for Adenosine, not Elouise, though she may share the same misinterpretation
Sorry, I don't understand. You were referring to privacy on the internet as a whole?
Yes, most of the fears of people here can't be prevented. Various measures could be used to make them less convenient but that's about it.
If it's mostly an issue of preserving online persona, I see this as somewhat silly but maybe that's just me. I'm not seriously worried that my posts will be co-opted by NAMBLA forums if they exist nor RR, nor some White Supremacy site. I've actually seem a few of my posts from Dawkins re-posted at some religious websites. It made for good fun going after them. It's easy to disavow and can even be a badge of honor of sorts. But it seems like we're taking ourselves way too seriously. When outsiders give a shit, that means we've actually done something worthwhile probably.
For most, I think, inclusion in lots of forums isn't the probelm, it's feeling excluded that feels shitty whether you get banned from a forum you want to stay in or if you resign from a forum that no longer repesents your values. And then all your stuff is left behind. But I never felt my persona was so critical that I felt I had to delete or deface all my posts. They are just forums people. We aren't changing the world.
:facepalm:
Absolutely. If someone gave enough of a shit about what we write then yes, they can come and copy posts elsewhere and applaud or ridicule to their heart's content.
But we shouldn't facilitate that . Because, as I said, I believe it goes against our core ethos.
We may not be changing the world but we stand for something and that something should be supported.
The bolded bit has nothing to do with copying the forum.
Adenosine
13th February 2012, 12:45 AM
Disjointed post is disjointed.
PermanentlyEphemeral
13th February 2012, 12:46 AM
Here's a question. What makes this site, this site?
We don't have the ability to give our permission for anything this forum might do with its content or our information. Why should this issue be different? Our core ethos places a minimum value on privacy.
What if Eloise left for awhile to come back to a forum that had made significant changes or highly biased interpretations of its existing core ethos in favor of a majority-driven derivative. The minority might rally behind Eloise to take back the forum. But if that didn't work we'd have to splinter off again. Should that be allowed (to include the copying of content) and which splinter should be called MindRomp?
This is no simple conundrum if you think about it.
What if Eloise wants Que sera sera?
We don't have the ability to give our permission for anything this forum might do with its content or our information. Why should this issue be different? Our core ethos places a minimum value on privacy.
What if Eloise left for awhile to come back to a forum that had made significant changes or highly biased interpretations of its existing core ethos in favor of a majority-driven derivative. The minority might rally behind Eloise to take back the forum. But if that didn't work we'd have to splinter off again. Should that be allowed (to include the copying of content) and which splinter should be called MindRomp?
This is no simple conundrum if you think about it.
What if Eloise wants Que sera sera?
charlou
13th February 2012, 12:46 AM
I guess more power to them if they can make money off of my stupid posts about that one time I had insomnia and got so angry about my inability to sleep that I beat up my pillow until I got all tuckered out and fell asleep, finally.
So that's how it's done :D .. must try it some time .. though I do kinda want to be friends with my pillow.
So that's how it's done :D .. must try it some time .. though I do kinda want to be friends with my pillow.
Grumps
13th February 2012, 03:33 PM
I guess more power to them if they can make money off of my stupid posts about that one time I had insomnia and got so angry about my inability to sleep that I beat up my pillow until I got all tuckered out and fell asleep, finally.
So that's how it's done :D .. must try it some time .. though I do kinda want to be friends with my pillow.
Your pillow is a masochist.
It wants to be beaten.
So that's how it's done :D .. must try it some time .. though I do kinda want to be friends with my pillow.
Your pillow is a masochist.
It wants to be beaten.
divagreen
13th February 2012, 06:19 PM
It's part of the reason I am pissed that they keep accusing me. Fuck them. If they can't take being told they are fucking ignorant, they shouldn't read responses to their ignorance.
I took great pains to make sure not to look like I was trying to take control. To the point of fucking ridiculous. I carefully wrote that I was asking about the subject (to oblivion) but not asking her to DO anything. Then the fucking losers start accusing because I still don't agree with them.
I have learned much about Teshi and Divagreen. If they are scared I'll do something bad, fuck them. I am not responsible for the safety of their precious online personas. I won't pretend I am, either.
If you want to see how much I throw my weight around, look to my admin actions. They should be reasonably public.
I would like to clarify something with you; this isn't about you protecting my "on line persona" this is about you breaking a trust of what will happen to the content my posts after I join this site wrt the database. As in you taking my posts and putting them on another site as if I was a willing member there and had intentionally joined. Terms of service works both ways.
Again, that you are missing this and strawmanning my posts is mindboggling.
For the record, my posts are pretty boring and I am sure you have no intentions of stealing them per se, unless you were including the entirety in order to pad your numbers for a new site. It is the principal and that you would even consider this as an option is what I find smarmy. HOW you are managing to miss this I have no idea.
I took great pains to make sure not to look like I was trying to take control. To the point of fucking ridiculous. I carefully wrote that I was asking about the subject (to oblivion) but not asking her to DO anything. Then the fucking losers start accusing because I still don't agree with them.
I have learned much about Teshi and Divagreen. If they are scared I'll do something bad, fuck them. I am not responsible for the safety of their precious online personas. I won't pretend I am, either.
If you want to see how much I throw my weight around, look to my admin actions. They should be reasonably public.
I would like to clarify something with you; this isn't about you protecting my "on line persona" this is about you breaking a trust of what will happen to the content my posts after I join this site wrt the database. As in you taking my posts and putting them on another site as if I was a willing member there and had intentionally joined. Terms of service works both ways.
Again, that you are missing this and strawmanning my posts is mindboggling.
For the record, my posts are pretty boring and I am sure you have no intentions of stealing them per se, unless you were including the entirety in order to pad your numbers for a new site. It is the principal and that you would even consider this as an option is what I find smarmy. HOW you are managing to miss this I have no idea.
FedUpWithFaith
13th February 2012, 09:32 PM
For the record, my posts are pretty boring
Given all the contentious disagreement in this thread, I appreciate you stating something we can all agree with.:D
Given all the contentious disagreement in this thread, I appreciate you stating something we can all agree with.:D
divagreen
13th February 2012, 09:38 PM
For the record, my posts are pretty boring
Given all the contentious disagreement in this thread, I appreciate you stating something we can all agree with.:D
Tis true. :sadyes:
:hug:
Given all the contentious disagreement in this thread, I appreciate you stating something we can all agree with.:D
Tis true. :sadyes:
:hug:
FedUpWithFaith
13th February 2012, 09:49 PM
Diva, we all love you because you're boring.
:hug::hug:
:hug::hug:
Mantisdreamz
13th February 2012, 10:48 PM
Diva is not boring at all.
Though FUWF, maybe you are just harassing her again!
Though FUWF, maybe you are just harassing her again!
Floppit
13th February 2012, 10:48 PM
I voted yes. Seems to me while 'cut 'n' paste exists and is used, once something's written online there's not much point trying to protect it unless one has the funds for a serious lawyer - and I don't!
I'd be quite flattered, actually it isn't really going to happen is it? No-one's going to read my posts and then go to the effort needed to make it appear they got posted somewhere else because they're not that mindblowingly important.
I'd be quite flattered, actually it isn't really going to happen is it? No-one's going to read my posts and then go to the effort needed to make it appear they got posted somewhere else because they're not that mindblowingly important.
ficus
14th February 2012, 12:30 AM
The idea of copying the database to start a new site doesn't make much sense to me. If MR suddenly splinters in the future, why wouldn't the fora that split off from MR just start from scratch?
Yeah, it's a bizarre idea.it's internet dementia...
Yeah, it's a bizarre idea.it's internet dementia...
Grumps
14th February 2012, 07:50 AM
Dear everyone - your posts are already in the public domain. Permission is superficial, not legal, a policy doesn't matter once bit. The only people who would adhere to it are people who don't have a reasonable motive for duplicating your posts. The greater internet doesn't give a shite what you write, and if they did you wouldn't stop it from being replicated anyway.
Sincerely,
Reality.
Sincerely,
Reality.
Linus
14th February 2012, 11:40 AM
The idea of copying the database to start a new site doesn't make much sense to me. If MR suddenly splinters in the future, why wouldn't the fora that split off from MR just start from scratch?
Yeah, it's a bizarre idea.it's internet dementia...
Indeed.
Yeah, it's a bizarre idea.it's internet dementia...
Indeed.
Linus
14th February 2012, 11:50 AM
The greater internet doesn't give a shite what you write, and if they did you wouldn't stop it from being replicated anyway.
Exactly! It is therefore a bit weird to learn that a staff member or two cares enough about the Mindromp post history to entertain the idea of creating a new forum fully formed to look like Mindromp. Kind of like God creating the universe with light from stars in transit and appearance of old age.
Exactly! It is therefore a bit weird to learn that a staff member or two cares enough about the Mindromp post history to entertain the idea of creating a new forum fully formed to look like Mindromp. Kind of like God creating the universe with light from stars in transit and appearance of old age.
Magicziggy
14th February 2012, 12:15 PM
I tried reading this thread. It seems important but kind of technical and boring.
I don't care what happens to my posts. I do care that others care though.
I did read at one point cunt refer to "admin team". This is a new concept to me. I do nothing but .. actually I do nothing.. although I did once create a sub forum but somebody moved it. I thought I'd be into learning all the stuff that oblivion does but I haven't got the time.
Maybe the admin team should have a meeting..
Hang on
I don't care what happens to my posts. I do care that others care though.
I did read at one point cunt refer to "admin team". This is a new concept to me. I do nothing but .. actually I do nothing.. although I did once create a sub forum but somebody moved it. I thought I'd be into learning all the stuff that oblivion does but I haven't got the time.
Maybe the admin team should have a meeting..
Hang on
Adenosine
14th February 2012, 12:19 PM
'sup?
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