1990 Ford Ranger drive shaft rubbing. page 1

Cunt

4th February 2012, 04:16 AM

So I have this problem. Actually, what I have is the best vehicle. If it were wrecked, I would look for a 1990 Ford Ranger 4x4 regular cab short box to replace it. If I bought a new car, I would take the 30-50,000 bucks and find three or four 1990 Rangers and have them brought up to mint condition by a competant mechanic, then rotate them out of service for repairs so I wouldn't have to drive some other piece of shit.

Wife has a brand new Escape, and it is a fine machine. Working well under some trying conditions (cold, dry and the roads are absolute shit). It just isn't nearly as good as the Ranger.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you - My Phat Ass.

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee174/Darren8306/Faith.jpg

Oops...shit...that aint it...what the fuck IS this ugly piece of shit?!?


HERE it is! It also serves quite well as an shelf for ammunition.
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee174/Darren8306/IMGP7680_1851.jpg

But it has this problem. When I go over a small hill or dip, where the thing bounces, the front drive shaft is rubbing on a piece of frame.

Since this started I have had a competent gentleman replace the transmission mount and front shocks. Still rubbing...

With the front shaft out, it is silent, with it in, it knocks against the thing.

Any thoughts on what the fuck would be welcome. I am damn near going to jam a lift kit in it to see if that gets shit out of the way. Two problems, though. One, and most importantly, it might not work. Second, and most importantly, I would then need larger tires, probably new rims...which could recommend different bearing...well, you see, it's a slippery slope.

Supernaut

4th February 2012, 04:25 AM

Ok...first off, are talking about a front driveshaft from the diff or the front driveline from the transfer case to the diff?

Is there anything else going on with the front end besides this clunk? If it is a front driveshaft, you could have anything from a loose axle pivot bracket (highly unlikely since they are usually riveted in from the factory.) It could be a bad radius arm bushing that is allowing the twin traction beam (also known as "ttb" whichever side) to move fore and aft of center. It could also be bad ttb axle pivot bushings....which would essentially allow the same movement as a bad radius arm bushing.

If it is the front driveline, then you could have a worn output shaft bearing coming off the transfer case or a bad pinion bearing at the front differential. Have you checked the ujoints in the front driveline? Also, if the front differential hasn't been serviced, I would recommend doing so.

Mr. Mellow

4th February 2012, 04:26 AM

A couple of thoughts, not knowing what the shaft is rubbing against:
- Check for a broken motor mount. Since the transmission/transfer case are aligned with the engine, yet the front shaft is offset slightly (I assume), then the transfer-case output shaft could be sagging due to a cocked engine.
- Lifting wouldn't change the relationship between the shaft and the frame, only body-to-frame. Also, the current cause of the problem would still be there, and it would likely nag the shit out of you.

Supernaut, since he's a currently practicing tech, may have better answers.


EDIT: Supernaut is on the ball!

Supernaut

4th February 2012, 04:26 AM

Here is a pic of the passenger side radius arm and bushings:

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2289/234/71/1308241173/n1308241173_30826252_1592.jpg

Supernaut

4th February 2012, 04:27 AM

A couple of thoughts, not knowing what the shaft is rubbing against:
- Check for a broken motor mount. Since the transmission/transfer case are aligned with the engine, yet the front shaft is offset slightly (I assume), then the transfer-case output shaft could be sagging due to a cocked engine.
- Lifting wouldn't change the relationship between the shaft and the frame, only body-to-frame. Also, the current cause of the problem would still be there, and it would likely nag the shit out of you.

Supernaut, since he's a currently practicing tech, may have better answers.

I totally agree about the lift. Never lift a vehicle until it is 100% solid!!!

Supernaut

4th February 2012, 04:29 AM

Here is a pic of the front ttb axle pivot bushing for reference (this is an aftermarket poly replacement that has gone bad so yours will look slightly different):

http://www.streetsource.com/uploads/Forum/f/framedranger/i%20beam%20bushing.JPG

Supernaut

4th February 2012, 04:33 AM

The Ford Ranger is, by far, the best made and most reliable compact pickup one can buy!

Jerome

4th February 2012, 04:33 AM

Here is a pic of the front ttb axle pivot bushing for reference (this is an aftermarket poly replacement that has gone bad so yours will look slightly different):pic

I worked on cars as a kid, sedans from the 20's and 30's, way long out of practice, but that looks bent.

Jerome

4th February 2012, 04:35 AM

The Ford Ranger is, by far, the best made and most reliable compact pickup one can buy!

I drove an S-10 for a couple of years, well served was that truck.

MSG

4th February 2012, 04:36 AM

Here is a pic of the front ttb axle pivot bushing for reference (this is an aftermarket poly replacement that has gone bad so yours will look slightly different):pic

I worked on cars as a kid, sedans from the 20's and 30's, way long out of practice, but that looks bent.

Supernaut is the best at MR at knowing when something that seems straight is actually bent...

Mr. Mellow

4th February 2012, 04:38 AM

To clarify what I meant by sagging, a broken mount on the shaft side of the transfer case would rotate the entire assembly, lowering the axis of alignment between the transfer case output shaft and the front differential. However, I like Supernaut's suggestions better, as it would make better sense that sloppy suspension mounts would cause lateral components to flop around on bumps, changing the already small clearance the the shaft has to operate within.

Supernaut: I hope that made sense. It's been a while since I worked as a tech.

Supernaut

4th February 2012, 04:39 AM

Here is a pic of the front ttb axle pivot bushing for reference (this is an aftermarket poly replacement that has gone bad so yours will look slightly different):pic

I worked on cars as a kid, sedans from the 20's and 30's, way long out of practice, but that looks bent.

I noticed after posting the pic that the truck appears to be frame on the ground....so bad overall example......but the bushing is very worn and sagged...and the mount like you said looks to be bent/tweaked a bit.

Supernaut

4th February 2012, 04:40 AM

The Ford Ranger is, by far, the best made and most reliable compact pickup one can buy!

I drove an S-10 for a couple of years, well served was that truck.

I did as well.....but for diy repairs and such, the ranger is better. Also Ford uses better plsstics with a better overall fit and finish that Chevy trucks.

Supernaut

4th February 2012, 04:41 AM

Here is a pic of the front ttb axle pivot bushing for reference (this is an aftermarket poly replacement that has gone bad so yours will look slightly different):pic

I worked on cars as a kid, sedans from the 20's and 30's, way long out of practice, but that looks bent.

Supernaut is the best at MR at knowing when something that seems straight is actually bent...

LMFAO!!! :heygurl:

Supernaut

4th February 2012, 04:42 AM

To clarify what I meant by sagging, a broken mount on the shaft side of the transfer case would rotate the entire assembly, lowering the axis of alignment between the transfer case output shaft and the front differential. However, I like Supernaut's suggestions better, as it would make better sense that sloppy suspension mounts would cause lateral components to flop around on bumps, changing the already small clearance the the shaft has to operate within.

Supernaut: I hope that made sense. It's been a while since I worked as a tech.

Makes sense to me....but he did specify that he had the trans mount (which supports the transfer case as well) replaced to no avail.

Supernaut

4th February 2012, 04:50 AM

Any chance Cunt, that you can snap a few shots of the radius arm area, the axle pivot bushings on both sides, multiple angle shots of the front driveline?

Cunt

4th February 2012, 05:18 AM

Any chance Cunt, that you can snap a few shots of the radius arm area, the axle pivot bushings on both sides, multiple angle shots of the front driveline?

I can, and will. Problem is, it's warm and damp out there (about -1 right now) so I don't want to do it :)

I hire a tech to do the stuff, and don't know where everything is. I can and will go shoot some though.

The body lift wouldn't do anything, but a suspension lift might, no?

I am not really interested in lifting it, but would if it would eliminate this. It is SUCH a fucking good truck. I would jump in it and drive to Calgary right now if it was summer (problem doesn't appear in 2wd) and that is fucking near 2000k away.

Supernaut

4th February 2012, 05:25 AM

Any chance Cunt, that you can snap a few shots of the radius arm area, the axle pivot bushings on both sides, multiple angle shots of the front driveline?

I can, and will. Problem is, it's warm and damp out there (about -1 right now) so I don't want to do it :)

I hire a tech to do the stuff, and don't know where everything is. I can and will go shoot some though.

The body lift wouldn't do anything, but a suspension lift might, no?

I am not really interested in lifting it, but would if it would eliminate this. It is SUCH a fucking good truck. I would jump in it and drive to Calgary right now if it was summer (problem doesn't appear in 2wd) and that is fucking near 2000k away.

A body lift is not a good way lift any vehicle. A suspension lift could quite possibly make things worse. Without knowing exactly what the cause of the noise is, it is hard to say one way or the other.

Keep in mind that a suspension lift (like what Mr. Mellow was saying) only drops the suspension....the driveline angle stays relatively the same.

Cunt

4th February 2012, 07:51 AM

I am having trouble with photobucket right now...let me try to work something else out...

Hermit

4th February 2012, 08:06 AM

When I go over a small hill or dip, where the thing bounces, the front drive shaft is rubbing on a piece of frame.
Presumably that would create some rub-marks somewhere on the shaft and the chassis, or a shiny, bare spot in the metal, or just an area where the road grime has been rubbed off. If you locate those marks you are one step closer to locating the problem. If you don't, you are still one step closer. Perhaps the problem is a worn joint inside the transfer case or the differential, or even the wheel.

Cunt

4th February 2012, 08:11 AM

If I drive it with the front shaft engaged, it will take damage. It's been parked.
http://www.jacquard.ca/Images/PhatAss%20(2).jpg
http://www.jacquard.ca/Images/PhatAss%20(1).jpg


Under...
http://www.jacquard.ca/Images/PhatAss%20(3).jpg

Hermit

4th February 2012, 08:27 AM

Have you jacked the car up and tried to wobble the uni joints? I think it quite likely that one of them will fail after 22 years.

Cunt

4th February 2012, 08:38 AM

those aren't 22 years old...well, maybe the one in the main (rear) drive shaft (those fuck-wads at Ford 1990 made the fucking rear drive shaft 2 piece those fucking fucks. When they make the thing, they have to do the 2 pieces together anyway (and balance them together) fuck fuck fuck) might be, but I think I have had the others replaced. The truck has been mine for 6 years or so.

Supernaut

5th February 2012, 02:42 AM

So are there any witness marks on the radius arm crossmember? I wonder if the slip yoke is dried up....are there any serviceable fittings on the front driveline?

Cunt

5th February 2012, 02:46 AM

I am going to have to try to get in there with a smaller camera. You are way past me here...

Supernaut

5th February 2012, 03:11 AM

If I was a rich guy.....I would fly up there, bitchslap whatever tech you are using...and fix the goddamn thing myself!

Cunt

5th February 2012, 03:17 AM

He's no fool...just stuck...lemme see if I can get him to jump in here...

Supernaut

5th February 2012, 03:27 AM

Any additional info would be good. Since he is a friend of yours, the Chaplain will be kind :D

MSG

5th February 2012, 03:35 AM

I am tempted to ask whether bitch-slapping the tech falls within the definition of the Chaplain being kind to him, but I'm concerned that it could make me seem as though I'm taking an overly prurient interest in said Chaplain's personal proclivities.

It is a conundrum...

Supernaut

5th February 2012, 03:41 AM

I am tempted to ask whether bitch-slapping the tech falls within the definition of the Chaplain being kind to him, but I'm concerned that it could make me seem as though I'm taking an overly prurient interest in said Chaplain's personal proclivities.

It is a conundrum...

Bitch-slaps require the Chaplain gloves to come off.:sadyes:

rkent

5th February 2012, 04:24 AM

i am the the guy that has been looking at this vehicle the problem is that the front driveshaft is hitting the radius arm cross member when the vehicle is on the rebound from a dip in the road there is rub marks from the slip yoke boot rubbing there when you lift this vehicle in the air on a hoist the driveshaft is tight against the crossmember i have replaced both the trans mount and the front shocks for worn/broken rubber bushings i have pried on the pivot bushing and radius arm bushings and do not see any play in anything the driveshaft ujoints are fine and the slip yoke also moves freely i have also thought to check the alignment for a tracking problem but it drives nice and straight also this problem is only evident when the front driveshaft is engaged either from locking the hubs or from engaging the tcase i was goiing to cut the crossmember out and weld it about an inch or so lower this would fix the concern but not address the route cause of the problem thanks for any suggestions

Cunt

5th February 2012, 04:38 AM

Thanks very much, rkent.

I hope that clarifies the problem. Any thoughts?

Supernaut

5th February 2012, 05:17 AM

My first thought is that the driveline might not be OE to the truck....it should not hit that crossmember at all. Is the front if the truck leveled via lift coil or coil helper pucks?

Supernaut

5th February 2012, 05:18 AM

Also, does the driveline have a double cardan joint just off the t-case?

Mr. Mellow

5th February 2012, 05:30 AM

Just thinking out loud. This is all I gotz, then I gotz nothing after that.

- If the driveshaft is hitting the radius arm, either the driveshaft is too low, or the radius arm too high (or loose and moves during suspension travel).
- - - Possible bent radius arm, worn radius arm bushings, or bent/broken brackets.
- Intuition is still nagging me that the driveshaft could be sitting too low.
- - - Possible worn differential mount bushings, left side, or cracked mounting bracket.
- - - Possible worn differential pivot bushing, right side, or cracked mounting bracket.
- - - I would still check for a broken engine mount (left side, or both). Even though the transmission mounts have been replaced, I'm still thinking that a cocked (clockwise from front) engine could drop the position of the transfer case output shaft. Even if ever so slightly, this could be enough if the shaft has very little room within which to move as it is.
- - - Bent or cracked frame or camber bushings, left side (I don't know how wheel camber is achieved on this truck. I assume that the hub assembly is mounted to the front differential on the driver's side. If this mounting point is broken, bent or has dropped because of trashed bushings, then the whole assembly (including the drive shaft) will drop with it.

Edit: I would defer to your experience on this one, Supernaut. I'm just emptying my head of whatever is in there.

Supernaut

5th February 2012, 05:38 AM

Just thinking out loud. This is all I gotz, then I gotz nothing after that.

- If the driveshaft is hitting the radius arm, either the driveshaft is too low, or the radius arm too high (or loose and moves during suspension travel).
- - - Possible bent radius arm, worn radius arm bushings, or bent/broken brackets.
- Intuition is still nagging me that the driveshaft could be sitting too low.
- - - Possible worn differential mount bushings, left side, or cracked mounting bracket.
- - - Possible worn differential pivot bushing, right side, or cracked mounting bracket.
- - - I would still check for a broken engine mount (left side, or both). Even though the transmission mounts have been replaced, I'm still thinking that a cocked (clockwise from front) engine could drop the position of the transfer case output shaft. Even if ever so slightly, this could be enough if the shaft has very little room within which to move as it is.
- - - Bent or cracked frame or camber bushings, left side (I don't know how wheel camber is achieved on this truck. I assume that the hub assembly is mounted to the front differential on the driver's side. If this mounting point is broken, bent or has dropped because of trashed bushings, then the whole assembly (including the drive shaft) will drop with it.

Edit: I would defer to your experience on this one, Supernaut. I'm just emptying my head of whatever is in there.

At this point, I agree with your suspicions of the driveline.....if it has a double cardan joint at the transfer case, and the d-cardan joint has gone bad, then it certainly would allow for the driveline to contact the crossmember without looking too suspicious at a glance.

I would recommend that Cunt and rkent got to the truck*, jack up the rear at the pumpkin, then jack up the left and right front axles....put the truck in gear, engage the 4wd and that should give you a near 100% idea of the issue/cause of issue.


*not out in the snow either:whyyou:

Cunt

5th February 2012, 05:49 AM

Thanks, Supernaut. I'll hit up rkent with this when next I see him.

Supernaut

5th February 2012, 05:59 AM

Do keep me updated...no matter the result! I am now intertwined with this problem...and will not rest until that Ranger is better!

Mr. Mellow

5th February 2012, 06:00 AM

The double cardan joint makes so much more sense. My Ranger is 2WD, so this didn't even occur to me. :o

Supernaut

5th February 2012, 06:20 AM

The double cardan joint makes so much more sense. My Ranger is 2WD, so this didn't even occur to me. :o

I had an 87 Ranger 2wd....awesome little truck! Except...I would not own another automatic trans version though.

rkent

6th February 2012, 04:47 AM

thanks for the input i removed the driveshaft and did not see any concerns with the double cardagan joint and if the ujoint at the tcase had failed it would not cause it to drop low enough to hit the crossmember that is 6 inches away from the front pinion yoke in most cases that i have seen the ujoint seizes causing bad vibration driving in 4wd. i have also jacked up the trans and put about 1/2" shims in at the mount and it still makes the same noise. i removed the driveshaft and drove the truck with the tcase engaged and the front hubs locked and the noise is gone. in 2wd the truck does not make the noise with the driveshaft installed this is the dilemma. this truck has not been altered it appears to be stock. the part that i am having the problem with is that with the driveshaft installed it still must be contacting in 2wd but is not making the clunking noise and that when the hubs are locked or the tcase is engaged or both it clunks over the dips in the road these dips are not cracks in the pavement or wash board these are dips that at a good speed you would cause the truck to do a full jounce and rebound of the suspension

Supernaut

6th February 2012, 05:38 AM

Thanks for the additional info rkent. What condition is the slip yoke in? That would be the only possible cause for for a clunk during jounce/rebound...unless the transfer case/front diff are electronically actuated, perhaps the switch at the diff/transfer case is faulty?

Supernaut

6th February 2012, 05:42 AM

Also if you have time, do some looking around at www.fordrangerforums.com There is a wealth of helpful info in there...perhaps folks have had a similar issue and have found a solution.

Cunt

5th March 2012, 03:50 AM

Got some better photos (courtesy of rkent) It's out of line a bit, but that shouldn't be causing this...(it tracks straight because my 'bents' cancel each other out)
Number 1
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee174/Darren8306/IMGP6262.jpg
Number 2
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee174/Darren8306/IMGP6263.jpg
Number 3
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee174/Darren8306/IMGP6264.jpg
Number 4
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee174/Darren8306/IMGP6265.jpg