Commercial ideas page 1
Cunt
4th February 2012, 06:05 AM
I would like to invite you all to dream about a commercial idea with me. And dream of weaving it through the forum. Without upsetting it. I think what is here is delicate and important.
My commercial idea will simply be called 'Idea' from now on. It won't be disclosed here yet. Furthermore, I want to make it clear that I do not oppose the idea that MindRomp should stay non-commercial. The answer I dream of most would not conflict in my view or anyone else's. Tall order? Well, you could go post in the lolcats thread if you want...we don't HAVE to get anywhere.
I should also say that I am just a regular guy here. Not speaking as MindRomp staff.
So, lets say I start a website Idea.xxx, and it generates a profit. It also pretty purely promotes inclusion. (in a way that I think compliments MindRomp). How can that profit improve MindRomp, and draw traffic here (inclusion means for everyone, right?) without causing the kind of damage that worries many of the members (I'll let them give their own reasons if they wish)
So lets bat around some questions or objections. Oh, and lets try and keep the heat down here. I don't intend to implement decisions here, I hope to discuss them without anyone worrying that we are being 'taken over'
Early on in our development, we ran into one smart fucker who would have been willing to work hard for us, until he saw too much personal risk (I think due to odd laws in his locale). He bowed out gracefully and what a shame. I would like any commercial interaction to provide the kind of protection which would allow people to volunteer without fear. Fuck now I sound like a hippie...
My commercial idea will simply be called 'Idea' from now on. It won't be disclosed here yet. Furthermore, I want to make it clear that I do not oppose the idea that MindRomp should stay non-commercial. The answer I dream of most would not conflict in my view or anyone else's. Tall order? Well, you could go post in the lolcats thread if you want...we don't HAVE to get anywhere.
I should also say that I am just a regular guy here. Not speaking as MindRomp staff.
So, lets say I start a website Idea.xxx, and it generates a profit. It also pretty purely promotes inclusion. (in a way that I think compliments MindRomp). How can that profit improve MindRomp, and draw traffic here (inclusion means for everyone, right?) without causing the kind of damage that worries many of the members (I'll let them give their own reasons if they wish)
So lets bat around some questions or objections. Oh, and lets try and keep the heat down here. I don't intend to implement decisions here, I hope to discuss them without anyone worrying that we are being 'taken over'
Early on in our development, we ran into one smart fucker who would have been willing to work hard for us, until he saw too much personal risk (I think due to odd laws in his locale). He bowed out gracefully and what a shame. I would like any commercial interaction to provide the kind of protection which would allow people to volunteer without fear. Fuck now I sound like a hippie...
Jerome
4th February 2012, 06:06 AM
simply be called 'Idea' from now on
:unsure:
:unsure:
Jerome
4th February 2012, 06:07 AM
http://lolcat.com/images/lolcats/1338.jpg
Jerome
4th February 2012, 06:09 AM
Early on in our development, we ran into one smart fucker who would have been willing to work hard for us, until ...
boxer the smart horse
boxer the smart horse
oblivion
4th February 2012, 06:14 AM
cunt, what does an improved mindromp look like to you? besides more accessible (inclusive), and more members?
to anyone?
more features? fancy layouts? more things to do when you surf on in?
what sorts of the above?
to anyone?
more features? fancy layouts? more things to do when you surf on in?
what sorts of the above?
Jerome
4th February 2012, 06:17 AM
I know if mind romp could provide cocaine and hookers it could make a shit ton of money.
:yes:
:yes:
Cunt
4th February 2012, 06:46 AM
Well, it isn't really to do with Idea, but have this place where everyone can speak freely. Inclusion can't be achieved with just text. We would need several other ways of interacting (video, as one example). In order to include all the functionality I dream of, I would first want to be able to offer a fair wage to get the work done. I know there are volunteers and I know you work very hard for nothing aside from our thanks. I appreciate it. This is kind of aside from that, though.
The other thing is, we could look for the least included groups and work directly to include them. This again doesn't have so much to do with MR or Idea as it does our own personal goals and wishes.
The other thing is, we could look for the least included groups and work directly to include them. This again doesn't have so much to do with MR or Idea as it does our own personal goals and wishes.
oblivion
4th February 2012, 06:59 AM
Well, it isn't really to do with Idea, but have this place where everyone can speak freely. Inclusion can't be achieved with just text. We would need several other ways of interacting (video, as one example). In order to include all the functionality I dream of, I would first want to be able to offer a fair wage to get the work done. I know there are volunteers and I know you work very hard for nothing aside from our thanks. I appreciate it. This is kind of aside from that, though.
The other thing is, we could look for the least included groups and work directly to include them. This again doesn't have so much to do with MR or Idea as it does our own personal goals and wishes.
yeah, that's what I meant by "accessible" -- non-text. talk/audio-chat, video-chat, youtube library, podcasts, etc. games/arcade, maybe.
The other thing is, we could look for the least included groups and work directly to include them. This again doesn't have so much to do with MR or Idea as it does our own personal goals and wishes.
yeah, that's what I meant by "accessible" -- non-text. talk/audio-chat, video-chat, youtube library, podcasts, etc. games/arcade, maybe.
FedUpWithFaith
4th February 2012, 08:23 AM
I do not oppose the idea that MindRomp should stay non-commercial.
Practically and legally it is possible to have an association between a for-profit venture and a non-profit venture. And any commerical venture can potentially be set up as a non-prof in the first place. You can set up as many firewalls as you want or few.
The answer I dream of most would not conflict in my view or anyone else's. Tall order? Well, you could go post in the lolcats thread if you want...we don't HAVE to get anywhere.
Let's not kid ourselves, wherever you add complexity, opportunity, and money you risk conflict. But if the risk is worth it, reasonable passionate people of good will can make almost anything work. But as I discussed in another post, I'm very skeptical it could be managed, at least at first, strictly online. It requires people engaged in real-life in direct contact on a frequent basis.
So, lets say I start a website Idea.xxx, and it generates a profit. It also pretty purely promotes inclusion. (in a way that I think compliments MindRomp). How can that profit improve MindRomp, and draw traffic here (inclusion means for everyone, right?) without causing the kind of damage that worries many of the members (I'll let them give their own reasons if they wish)
We could write a book on this one question and not knowing the idea makes it much harder. Quick answer - it depends.
- how much money?
- who are the shareholders?
- how much investment required and from whom?
- who leads the biz - CEO/Directors (how are they answerable to the forum - if that even makes sense?)
- growth potential
If your biz has good growth opportunity, you probably want to plow as much of your profit as possible into growth as that will then give you more money for the forum later. But you would also want some codified balance lest the whole venture focus only on growth. Really depends on your idea here as they may be almost one in the same.
With enough money you can do a lot. With enough money you can hire good advertising agencys and marketing firms to get the word out. But you probably don't need to do that, at least at first. Again, this is a very solvable problem that just gets easier to solve with money. It's very hard to give specifics unless we know what the biz driver is. It might sell itself and by association, the forum.
Practically and legally it is possible to have an association between a for-profit venture and a non-profit venture. And any commerical venture can potentially be set up as a non-prof in the first place. You can set up as many firewalls as you want or few.
The answer I dream of most would not conflict in my view or anyone else's. Tall order? Well, you could go post in the lolcats thread if you want...we don't HAVE to get anywhere.
Let's not kid ourselves, wherever you add complexity, opportunity, and money you risk conflict. But if the risk is worth it, reasonable passionate people of good will can make almost anything work. But as I discussed in another post, I'm very skeptical it could be managed, at least at first, strictly online. It requires people engaged in real-life in direct contact on a frequent basis.
So, lets say I start a website Idea.xxx, and it generates a profit. It also pretty purely promotes inclusion. (in a way that I think compliments MindRomp). How can that profit improve MindRomp, and draw traffic here (inclusion means for everyone, right?) without causing the kind of damage that worries many of the members (I'll let them give their own reasons if they wish)
We could write a book on this one question and not knowing the idea makes it much harder. Quick answer - it depends.
- how much money?
- who are the shareholders?
- how much investment required and from whom?
- who leads the biz - CEO/Directors (how are they answerable to the forum - if that even makes sense?)
- growth potential
If your biz has good growth opportunity, you probably want to plow as much of your profit as possible into growth as that will then give you more money for the forum later. But you would also want some codified balance lest the whole venture focus only on growth. Really depends on your idea here as they may be almost one in the same.
With enough money you can do a lot. With enough money you can hire good advertising agencys and marketing firms to get the word out. But you probably don't need to do that, at least at first. Again, this is a very solvable problem that just gets easier to solve with money. It's very hard to give specifics unless we know what the biz driver is. It might sell itself and by association, the forum.
Cunt
4th February 2012, 09:36 AM
The answer I dream of most would not conflict in my view or anyone else's. Tall order? Well, you could go post in the lolcats thread if you want...we don't HAVE to get anywhere.
Let's not kid ourselves, wherever you add complexity, opportunity, and money you risk conflict. But if the risk is worth it, reasonable passionate people of good will can make almost anything work. But as I discussed in another post, I'm very skeptical it could be managed, at least at first, strictly online. It requires people engaged in real-life in direct contact on a frequent basis.So come on up for a visit!
We could write a book on this one question and not knowing the idea makes it much harder. Quick answer - it depends.
- how much money?I don't know how how to project that kind of thing.
- who are the shareholders?I think it could be one, or many. Is 'stakeholder' different from shareholder? Or just a new sexy term?
- how much investment required and from whom?I think worldwide travel and as much of it as can be managed.
- who leads the biz - CEO/Directors (how are they answerable to the forum - if that even makes sense?)I don't like the 'board of directors' set-up. It seems nearly designed to divide. (though my board experience was not-for-profit stuff)
Leading? If a board could be reliably lashed to a purpose (say, by rewarding them broadly for success, and quick ejection for failure) then okay...I guess.
Can't there be a supreme dictator?
- growth potentialAs big as big is.
If your biz has good growth opportunity, you probably want to plow as much of your profit as possible into growth
That's the thing...I would want to secure the forum for 5 years. I would like the forum to run like my laundry. (I don't think it will) but as soon as we identify a load (bill or need, or goal, whatever) we shove it in.
Beyond that, I don't think there is need for resources for the forum. I don't know what the costs are as growth happens, but I would choose a server somewhere safe.
Let's not kid ourselves, wherever you add complexity, opportunity, and money you risk conflict. But if the risk is worth it, reasonable passionate people of good will can make almost anything work. But as I discussed in another post, I'm very skeptical it could be managed, at least at first, strictly online. It requires people engaged in real-life in direct contact on a frequent basis.So come on up for a visit!
We could write a book on this one question and not knowing the idea makes it much harder. Quick answer - it depends.
- how much money?I don't know how how to project that kind of thing.
- who are the shareholders?I think it could be one, or many. Is 'stakeholder' different from shareholder? Or just a new sexy term?
- how much investment required and from whom?I think worldwide travel and as much of it as can be managed.
- who leads the biz - CEO/Directors (how are they answerable to the forum - if that even makes sense?)I don't like the 'board of directors' set-up. It seems nearly designed to divide. (though my board experience was not-for-profit stuff)
Leading? If a board could be reliably lashed to a purpose (say, by rewarding them broadly for success, and quick ejection for failure) then okay...I guess.
Can't there be a supreme dictator?
- growth potentialAs big as big is.
If your biz has good growth opportunity, you probably want to plow as much of your profit as possible into growth
That's the thing...I would want to secure the forum for 5 years. I would like the forum to run like my laundry. (I don't think it will) but as soon as we identify a load (bill or need, or goal, whatever) we shove it in.
Beyond that, I don't think there is need for resources for the forum. I don't know what the costs are as growth happens, but I would choose a server somewhere safe.
Grumps
4th February 2012, 09:49 AM
Want an improved mindromp?
Stop trying to make it more than it is.
Stop trying to make it more than it is.
FedUpWithFaith
4th February 2012, 10:23 AM
Want an improved mindromp?
Stop trying to make it more than it is.
That was pretty much the attitude at all the other splinters that died.
Stop trying to make it more than it is.
That was pretty much the attitude at all the other splinters that died.
FedUpWithFaith
4th February 2012, 10:41 AM
Cunt,
I suggest you think more about if and how you want to make your idea public before we continue. The enthusiasm in this forum for the general idea seems lukewarm at best and I think this hypothetical discussion is going to scare more people than it emboldens. So by the time you disclose it (assuming you do), the members will be predisposed to hate it no matter how cool it is.
Furthermore, there are simply too many degrees of freedom. That means going down a lot of blind alleys for little payback in terms of real learning.
Finally, there is a fear in this forum that I'm going to take the lead and run with your idea to the detriment of the forum. That won't help you so my noodling with you here will just make your chances of success worse.
Think about it.
I suggest you think more about if and how you want to make your idea public before we continue. The enthusiasm in this forum for the general idea seems lukewarm at best and I think this hypothetical discussion is going to scare more people than it emboldens. So by the time you disclose it (assuming you do), the members will be predisposed to hate it no matter how cool it is.
Furthermore, there are simply too many degrees of freedom. That means going down a lot of blind alleys for little payback in terms of real learning.
Finally, there is a fear in this forum that I'm going to take the lead and run with your idea to the detriment of the forum. That won't help you so my noodling with you here will just make your chances of success worse.
Think about it.
amused
4th February 2012, 12:32 PM
There are two things that are likely about this Big idea:
1. It's been done a zillion times already.
2. It sucks.
In any case, if MR is looking for a unifying theme that can be used to build a community, my Big Idea is the arts. Something like DeviantArt except without their godawful forum setup. More like a forum with galleries, except expanded to include anything that the human mind can put down in concrete form and be romped within.
1. It's been done a zillion times already.
2. It sucks.
In any case, if MR is looking for a unifying theme that can be used to build a community, my Big Idea is the arts. Something like DeviantArt except without their godawful forum setup. More like a forum with galleries, except expanded to include anything that the human mind can put down in concrete form and be romped within.
Grumps
4th February 2012, 01:20 PM
Want an improved mindromp?
Stop trying to make it more than it is.
That was pretty much the attitude at all the other splinters that died.
Quite grotesquely incorrect on your part.
The reason they failed was because they over-estimated themselves. Grand visions, delusions of how things "ought to be", desperate attempts to construct an accepted 'attitude' or 'character' to the place. None of them ever employed even the minimum of foresight.
There are quite a lot of considerations you have to think of when you want to give a website 'focus' - in the field you wish to enter, is your service unique?
If no, does it meet a demand that is not being presently met?
If no, why the fuck are you bothering? You aren't offering anything unique, nor meeting a shortage in supply, there is nothing to draw an audience to you.
There's more than that - you have to ask:
What needs to change in the present set-up?
What do we need to anticipate?
What resources will be required?
What time do you have to invest?
How far can you think ahead? How much space in your Calendar are you willing to free up?
Edit: Also, internet. You have to be able to think in two different scales of time simultaneously: Think in minutes and months, be able to adapt rapidly to sudden change and still be stable several weeks down the line.
Stop trying to make it more than it is.
That was pretty much the attitude at all the other splinters that died.
Quite grotesquely incorrect on your part.
The reason they failed was because they over-estimated themselves. Grand visions, delusions of how things "ought to be", desperate attempts to construct an accepted 'attitude' or 'character' to the place. None of them ever employed even the minimum of foresight.
There are quite a lot of considerations you have to think of when you want to give a website 'focus' - in the field you wish to enter, is your service unique?
If no, does it meet a demand that is not being presently met?
If no, why the fuck are you bothering? You aren't offering anything unique, nor meeting a shortage in supply, there is nothing to draw an audience to you.
There's more than that - you have to ask:
What needs to change in the present set-up?
What do we need to anticipate?
What resources will be required?
What time do you have to invest?
How far can you think ahead? How much space in your Calendar are you willing to free up?
Edit: Also, internet. You have to be able to think in two different scales of time simultaneously: Think in minutes and months, be able to adapt rapidly to sudden change and still be stable several weeks down the line.
Cunt
4th February 2012, 05:30 PM
Cunt,
I suggest you think more about if and how you want to make your idea public before we continue. The enthusiasm in this forum for the general idea seems lukewarm at best and I think this hypothetical discussion is going to scare more people than it emboldens. So by the time you disclose it (assuming you do), the members will be predisposed to hate it no matter how cool it is.
Furthermore, there are simply too many degrees of freedom. That means going down a lot of blind alleys for little payback in terms of real learning.
Finally, there is a fear in this forum that I'm going to take the lead and run with your idea to the detriment of the forum. That won't help you so my noodling with you here will just make your chances of success worse.
Think about it.
Right off the bat, let me say that since it is my idea, I decide where and when to share. Just because this whole forum (if it were true) hates you (I don't think it's true) doesn't mean my decision about trusting you would change. If everyone here disagreed because I chose to ask for your help or direction, then they are certainly not the group to partner with on this matter.
I choose my friends, partners and adversaries. My real friends don't always agree with my choices, but the ones that aim to remain my friends respect those choices.
This idea I think I wont. Likely, I will share it with someone who has the resources to make it happen, and fail to convince anyone here to link up with it. That's okay, I invited others because I knew I wasn't smart enough alone. For instance Grumps made a good point you dismissed. This hasn't really been tried yet, and I think he understands what the thrust is here. He may have delivered his idea in a flip way, but I think he has thought about it and it really is his position.
Thing is, I'll go on having ideas. There will always be 'business world pressure' on this forum (more as and if it grows). Others will continue to have disagreements about what could or could not work.
But I posted a tee shirt with the MindRomp logo. Now anyone with a decent internet connection can go get a tee shirt printed and wear it. The price is free, but other than that, it looks like a bit of business. I didn't intend that when I posted it (just sharing my sweethearts tee shirt design, adding the logo was last-minute) but there it is. Others could grab our logo and do stuff with it.
-------------------
There are two things that are likely about this Big idea:
1. It's been done a zillion times already.
2. It sucks.You are absolutely right. I think it hasn't been done, but it might suck.
In any case, if MR is looking for a unifying theme that can be used to build a community, my Big Idea is the arts. Something like DeviantArt except without their godawful forum setup. More like a forum with galleries, except expanded to include anything that the human mind can put down in concrete form and be romped within.I don't think this would be a 'unifying theme'. I think it might be something that many here would see value in.
I don't want to see this group unified at all. I want to see us remain in disagreement because I think it makes a better place for learning. Let's face it, most of what I get out of here is light or fun, it is really nice to have learning rubbed in my face in unexpected areas.
andrewclunn for instance. I have been sort of opposed to social darwinism since hearing the term. When he told me about it, I realized that (his view of) social darwinism is the way a lot of my world is run. I wish he had stayed, though I think the idea is putrid. It shines a light in areas I had not considered illuminating.
The arts are okay, but do you realize why we don't host images? (partly because I am fearful)
Honestly, I don't know how to host art without running a much higher (I think unacceptable) risk of finding ourselves hosting illegal content.
I suggest you think more about if and how you want to make your idea public before we continue. The enthusiasm in this forum for the general idea seems lukewarm at best and I think this hypothetical discussion is going to scare more people than it emboldens. So by the time you disclose it (assuming you do), the members will be predisposed to hate it no matter how cool it is.
Furthermore, there are simply too many degrees of freedom. That means going down a lot of blind alleys for little payback in terms of real learning.
Finally, there is a fear in this forum that I'm going to take the lead and run with your idea to the detriment of the forum. That won't help you so my noodling with you here will just make your chances of success worse.
Think about it.
Right off the bat, let me say that since it is my idea, I decide where and when to share. Just because this whole forum (if it were true) hates you (I don't think it's true) doesn't mean my decision about trusting you would change. If everyone here disagreed because I chose to ask for your help or direction, then they are certainly not the group to partner with on this matter.
I choose my friends, partners and adversaries. My real friends don't always agree with my choices, but the ones that aim to remain my friends respect those choices.
This idea I think I wont. Likely, I will share it with someone who has the resources to make it happen, and fail to convince anyone here to link up with it. That's okay, I invited others because I knew I wasn't smart enough alone. For instance Grumps made a good point you dismissed. This hasn't really been tried yet, and I think he understands what the thrust is here. He may have delivered his idea in a flip way, but I think he has thought about it and it really is his position.
Thing is, I'll go on having ideas. There will always be 'business world pressure' on this forum (more as and if it grows). Others will continue to have disagreements about what could or could not work.
But I posted a tee shirt with the MindRomp logo. Now anyone with a decent internet connection can go get a tee shirt printed and wear it. The price is free, but other than that, it looks like a bit of business. I didn't intend that when I posted it (just sharing my sweethearts tee shirt design, adding the logo was last-minute) but there it is. Others could grab our logo and do stuff with it.
-------------------
There are two things that are likely about this Big idea:
1. It's been done a zillion times already.
2. It sucks.You are absolutely right. I think it hasn't been done, but it might suck.
In any case, if MR is looking for a unifying theme that can be used to build a community, my Big Idea is the arts. Something like DeviantArt except without their godawful forum setup. More like a forum with galleries, except expanded to include anything that the human mind can put down in concrete form and be romped within.I don't think this would be a 'unifying theme'. I think it might be something that many here would see value in.
I don't want to see this group unified at all. I want to see us remain in disagreement because I think it makes a better place for learning. Let's face it, most of what I get out of here is light or fun, it is really nice to have learning rubbed in my face in unexpected areas.
andrewclunn for instance. I have been sort of opposed to social darwinism since hearing the term. When he told me about it, I realized that (his view of) social darwinism is the way a lot of my world is run. I wish he had stayed, though I think the idea is putrid. It shines a light in areas I had not considered illuminating.
The arts are okay, but do you realize why we don't host images? (partly because I am fearful)
Honestly, I don't know how to host art without running a much higher (I think unacceptable) risk of finding ourselves hosting illegal content.
FedUpWithFaith
4th February 2012, 08:27 PM
Cunt,
I suggest you think more about if and how you want to make your idea public before we continue. The enthusiasm in this forum for the general idea seems lukewarm at best and I think this hypothetical discussion is going to scare more people than it emboldens. So by the time you disclose it (assuming you do), the members will be predisposed to hate it no matter how cool it is.
Furthermore, there are simply too many degrees of freedom. That means going down a lot of blind alleys for little payback in terms of real learning.
Finally, there is a fear in this forum that I'm going to take the lead and run with your idea to the detriment of the forum. That won't help you so my noodling with you here will just make your chances of success worse.
Think about it.
Right off the bat, let me say that since it is my idea, I decide where and when to share. Just because this whole forum (if it were true) hates you (I don't think it's true) doesn't mean my decision about trusting you would change. If everyone here disagreed because I chose to ask for your help or direction, then they are certainly not the group to partner with on this matter.
Well, the point is, you don't trust me enough either to tell me what it is. And that's OK as I explained elsewhere. But your idea is likely no more valuable than my experience. I've acted as a VC to enable others to develop their ideas. Most people who come to me with what they think are great ideas are wrong - they suck. That's true for most VCs.
Others have come with the kernal of something great but with lots of incoherent holes. By the time the idea reaches commercialization, it is just a shadow of their original idea. It might end up being more my idea or some other biz partners. A lot of heavy duty work is usually needed because good ideas are really a dime a dozen. Smart businessmen and investors look at the plan and ability to execute.
I get paid big bucks to do what you are asking. I'd be happy to do it for free as your friend, but not if it wastes my time. So far, none of your answers have narrowed the scope much and the degrees of freedom for this thing appear infinite (you didn't address this part of my concern). I love noodling but unbounded limitess speculation will not be very productive and I already find it frustrating.
I will gladly answer any of your specific and well-bounded questions as best I can. Otherwise, I have better uses for my time - as is my right also.
For instance Grumps made a good point you dismissed.
What was that exactly? Because I found most of what Grumps said incoherent or just plain wrong above.
This hasn't really been tried yet
So you say. I doubt it. I'll bet that somewhere the idea is already being done very close to yours (95% chance) or in a directly translatable manner in another type of venue (99%). And if it is, I could probably point it out to you within 48 hours or less.
Break your idea down into some clearly differentiable key words and phrases. Then Google them. Follow the leads and keep Googling. If you really find nothing (I doubt it) then go to one of the free patent search websites and rinse/repeat. If it is an information technology-related idea then also search IBM's tech reports. IBM is famous for publishing ideas it decides not to patent but wants to prevent others from patenting by making the public disclosure.
But I posted a tee shirt with the MindRomp logo. Now anyone with a decent internet connection can go get a tee shirt printed and wear it. The price is free, but other than that, it looks like a bit of business. I didn't intend that when I posted it (just sharing my sweethearts tee shirt design, adding the logo was last-minute) but there it is. Others could grab our logo and do stuff with it.
Yeah, so what? Listen, this is not really a big deal but I'm going to use this comment to illustrate your naivete and ignorance from a marketing and IP perpective before you do something bigger you regret - presumably with this secret idea.
First, by not copyrighting the site/trademarking the logo, you are foreclosing on potential future revenue streams from it's licensing that could be significant if MindRomp took off. This act wouldn't prevent you from offering free licenses however. Take a look at YouTube video licensing sometime. It's probably not too late to do it. I would. Costs nothing. This is one reason why major websites, as RD.net, claim a copyright to their content.
If you want MindRomp to be successful, as a commericial venture or any other type of venture, including what it is now (whatever that is???) you need to think of it as a BRAND! A brand stands for something. A brand occupies mindshare. MindRomp is currently not a brand. It has negligible public mindshare and I don't think everyone agrees what it even stands for.
Strong brands are built with both push and pull advertising and promotion. Right now, you are implicitly engaged in viral pull marketing, only there is not yet anything sufficiently grabbing to go viral. When I see lots of t-shirts with MindRomp on it, whether we've sold them or let others print them for free, we will know we have something big.
In any case, if MR is looking for a unifying theme that can be used to build a community, my Big Idea is the arts. Something like DeviantArt except without their godawful forum setup. More like a forum with galleries, except expanded to include anything that the human mind can put down in concrete form and be romped within.
I don't think this would be a 'unifying theme'. I think it might be something that many here would see value in.
I don't want to see this group unified at all. I want to see us remain in disagreement because I think it makes a better place for learning. Let's face it, most of what I get out of here is light or fun, it is really nice to have learning rubbed in my face in unexpected areas.
andrewclunn for instance. I have been sort of opposed to social darwinism since hearing the term. When he told me about it, I realized that (his view of) social darwinism is the way a lot of my world is run. I wish he had stayed, though I think the idea is putrid.
Art could be our unifying theme if a majority here unified to support it, could it not? You have said you don't control the forum and there are no controlling leaders. I haven't seen a constitution or rules that require unanimity. So if most of us loved Amused's idea why couldn't we go for it?
Cunt, my friend, you're nuts. What you seem to say you want is impossible. It's a pipedream. And if most of the forum shares this view, it's doomed. Your ideas are nice and idealistic. But they are doomed because they are either incoherent or defy human nature.
I think I can tell you how to get as close as possible to what you do want, but you'll have to be open to adjusting your thinking as I always know you are.
It's funny, but you were right, this commerical thread really helps to focus a lot of ideas people who would never want the site to be commercial need to explore. The forum is essentially a product used and created by its members and it needs to be described by the features and benefits needed to acheive certain goals. IT MUST BE TREATED LIKE A BRAND!
These seem to be the goals I'm hearing most that also help define our brand so far:
Maximum inclusiveness
Maximum free speech
Maximum diversity
To help achieve these, so far, the consensus is there are no "leaders" of the forum in the sense of organizational control and the forum is basically anarcho-democratic - though even that seems a bit conflicted. This appears to be the philosophy that this group best secures the above goals today.
Though far from unanimous, you and I and some others also seem to agree that growth and some sort of mission(s) is necessary to attain these goals for the longer term and potentially make the forum a force for the greater good.
First, a sidenote. I'm not for maximum inclusiveness unless we plan growth properly. I'm for Minimum Exclusiveness.
Let me illustrate using something you said earlier about recruiting hundreds of people to come here from Rapture Ready. That would be a disaster. Once they had the majority they could dictate the future of the forum and I doubt they would long share our forum values. You could invite them all in, but then we'd need strong leaders, politicking, rules and all the other bullshit we saw fail at other forums to preserve some semblance of our current values. The entire culture of the forum would change and many of the originals would probably leave. Allowing inclusiveness is one thing, acheiving it with diversity is another. Even if we allow all kinds of people to join not all kinds will join - at least not in true representative proportions. The nature and history of the site will always implicitly self-select new members, whether you like it our not.
On the other hand, I would love RR people to come here. I wouldn't exclude them. As long as we maintained an organic diveristy of growth we can retain our forum values and culture as well as expand them into many new territories. So I say minimum enclusiveness and maximum diversity. What do you think so far?
Cunt, you want a forum capable of complete disunity in all things and worse, you wish to execute what would be effective growth policy in disunity. You need to understand that this forum, in order to become a successful brand that sustains values and loyalty, must unify around some mission to grow and diversify. That DOES NOT MEAN that by unifying on a growth mission that we have to abandon all principles of inclusiveness, diversity, and squabbling disunity in our communication channels. I love all those things too. Nor does it mean we can't grow to adopt new focii in the future.
Please show me one organization in history that has ever succeeded for very long or had a significant positive impact that didn't have a focus. The number of things that any organization can do well is limited by its size and diversity. Right now, arguably, we lack the size and diversity to do anything well. Consider any company, charity, or forum you know that is succussful. They all started around one or just a few successful drivers. Coke would have failed if they'd tried to start a company from scratch that made 100 different soft drinks, 100 kinds of snacks and controlled restaurants, ad agencies, etc. as they do today
We have to start with one idea and see where it goes from there. If it flies it will enable us to better grow and support a forum that can otherwise be in whatever disunity it wants in the exercise of free speech, even if it should eventually decide to destroy or redefine the focus that helped create it.
I suggest you think more about if and how you want to make your idea public before we continue. The enthusiasm in this forum for the general idea seems lukewarm at best and I think this hypothetical discussion is going to scare more people than it emboldens. So by the time you disclose it (assuming you do), the members will be predisposed to hate it no matter how cool it is.
Furthermore, there are simply too many degrees of freedom. That means going down a lot of blind alleys for little payback in terms of real learning.
Finally, there is a fear in this forum that I'm going to take the lead and run with your idea to the detriment of the forum. That won't help you so my noodling with you here will just make your chances of success worse.
Think about it.
Right off the bat, let me say that since it is my idea, I decide where and when to share. Just because this whole forum (if it were true) hates you (I don't think it's true) doesn't mean my decision about trusting you would change. If everyone here disagreed because I chose to ask for your help or direction, then they are certainly not the group to partner with on this matter.
Well, the point is, you don't trust me enough either to tell me what it is. And that's OK as I explained elsewhere. But your idea is likely no more valuable than my experience. I've acted as a VC to enable others to develop their ideas. Most people who come to me with what they think are great ideas are wrong - they suck. That's true for most VCs.
Others have come with the kernal of something great but with lots of incoherent holes. By the time the idea reaches commercialization, it is just a shadow of their original idea. It might end up being more my idea or some other biz partners. A lot of heavy duty work is usually needed because good ideas are really a dime a dozen. Smart businessmen and investors look at the plan and ability to execute.
I get paid big bucks to do what you are asking. I'd be happy to do it for free as your friend, but not if it wastes my time. So far, none of your answers have narrowed the scope much and the degrees of freedom for this thing appear infinite (you didn't address this part of my concern). I love noodling but unbounded limitess speculation will not be very productive and I already find it frustrating.
I will gladly answer any of your specific and well-bounded questions as best I can. Otherwise, I have better uses for my time - as is my right also.
For instance Grumps made a good point you dismissed.
What was that exactly? Because I found most of what Grumps said incoherent or just plain wrong above.
This hasn't really been tried yet
So you say. I doubt it. I'll bet that somewhere the idea is already being done very close to yours (95% chance) or in a directly translatable manner in another type of venue (99%). And if it is, I could probably point it out to you within 48 hours or less.
Break your idea down into some clearly differentiable key words and phrases. Then Google them. Follow the leads and keep Googling. If you really find nothing (I doubt it) then go to one of the free patent search websites and rinse/repeat. If it is an information technology-related idea then also search IBM's tech reports. IBM is famous for publishing ideas it decides not to patent but wants to prevent others from patenting by making the public disclosure.
But I posted a tee shirt with the MindRomp logo. Now anyone with a decent internet connection can go get a tee shirt printed and wear it. The price is free, but other than that, it looks like a bit of business. I didn't intend that when I posted it (just sharing my sweethearts tee shirt design, adding the logo was last-minute) but there it is. Others could grab our logo and do stuff with it.
Yeah, so what? Listen, this is not really a big deal but I'm going to use this comment to illustrate your naivete and ignorance from a marketing and IP perpective before you do something bigger you regret - presumably with this secret idea.
First, by not copyrighting the site/trademarking the logo, you are foreclosing on potential future revenue streams from it's licensing that could be significant if MindRomp took off. This act wouldn't prevent you from offering free licenses however. Take a look at YouTube video licensing sometime. It's probably not too late to do it. I would. Costs nothing. This is one reason why major websites, as RD.net, claim a copyright to their content.
If you want MindRomp to be successful, as a commericial venture or any other type of venture, including what it is now (whatever that is???) you need to think of it as a BRAND! A brand stands for something. A brand occupies mindshare. MindRomp is currently not a brand. It has negligible public mindshare and I don't think everyone agrees what it even stands for.
Strong brands are built with both push and pull advertising and promotion. Right now, you are implicitly engaged in viral pull marketing, only there is not yet anything sufficiently grabbing to go viral. When I see lots of t-shirts with MindRomp on it, whether we've sold them or let others print them for free, we will know we have something big.
In any case, if MR is looking for a unifying theme that can be used to build a community, my Big Idea is the arts. Something like DeviantArt except without their godawful forum setup. More like a forum with galleries, except expanded to include anything that the human mind can put down in concrete form and be romped within.
I don't think this would be a 'unifying theme'. I think it might be something that many here would see value in.
I don't want to see this group unified at all. I want to see us remain in disagreement because I think it makes a better place for learning. Let's face it, most of what I get out of here is light or fun, it is really nice to have learning rubbed in my face in unexpected areas.
andrewclunn for instance. I have been sort of opposed to social darwinism since hearing the term. When he told me about it, I realized that (his view of) social darwinism is the way a lot of my world is run. I wish he had stayed, though I think the idea is putrid.
Art could be our unifying theme if a majority here unified to support it, could it not? You have said you don't control the forum and there are no controlling leaders. I haven't seen a constitution or rules that require unanimity. So if most of us loved Amused's idea why couldn't we go for it?
Cunt, my friend, you're nuts. What you seem to say you want is impossible. It's a pipedream. And if most of the forum shares this view, it's doomed. Your ideas are nice and idealistic. But they are doomed because they are either incoherent or defy human nature.
I think I can tell you how to get as close as possible to what you do want, but you'll have to be open to adjusting your thinking as I always know you are.
It's funny, but you were right, this commerical thread really helps to focus a lot of ideas people who would never want the site to be commercial need to explore. The forum is essentially a product used and created by its members and it needs to be described by the features and benefits needed to acheive certain goals. IT MUST BE TREATED LIKE A BRAND!
These seem to be the goals I'm hearing most that also help define our brand so far:
Maximum inclusiveness
Maximum free speech
Maximum diversity
To help achieve these, so far, the consensus is there are no "leaders" of the forum in the sense of organizational control and the forum is basically anarcho-democratic - though even that seems a bit conflicted. This appears to be the philosophy that this group best secures the above goals today.
Though far from unanimous, you and I and some others also seem to agree that growth and some sort of mission(s) is necessary to attain these goals for the longer term and potentially make the forum a force for the greater good.
First, a sidenote. I'm not for maximum inclusiveness unless we plan growth properly. I'm for Minimum Exclusiveness.
Let me illustrate using something you said earlier about recruiting hundreds of people to come here from Rapture Ready. That would be a disaster. Once they had the majority they could dictate the future of the forum and I doubt they would long share our forum values. You could invite them all in, but then we'd need strong leaders, politicking, rules and all the other bullshit we saw fail at other forums to preserve some semblance of our current values. The entire culture of the forum would change and many of the originals would probably leave. Allowing inclusiveness is one thing, acheiving it with diversity is another. Even if we allow all kinds of people to join not all kinds will join - at least not in true representative proportions. The nature and history of the site will always implicitly self-select new members, whether you like it our not.
On the other hand, I would love RR people to come here. I wouldn't exclude them. As long as we maintained an organic diveristy of growth we can retain our forum values and culture as well as expand them into many new territories. So I say minimum enclusiveness and maximum diversity. What do you think so far?
Cunt, you want a forum capable of complete disunity in all things and worse, you wish to execute what would be effective growth policy in disunity. You need to understand that this forum, in order to become a successful brand that sustains values and loyalty, must unify around some mission to grow and diversify. That DOES NOT MEAN that by unifying on a growth mission that we have to abandon all principles of inclusiveness, diversity, and squabbling disunity in our communication channels. I love all those things too. Nor does it mean we can't grow to adopt new focii in the future.
Please show me one organization in history that has ever succeeded for very long or had a significant positive impact that didn't have a focus. The number of things that any organization can do well is limited by its size and diversity. Right now, arguably, we lack the size and diversity to do anything well. Consider any company, charity, or forum you know that is succussful. They all started around one or just a few successful drivers. Coke would have failed if they'd tried to start a company from scratch that made 100 different soft drinks, 100 kinds of snacks and controlled restaurants, ad agencies, etc. as they do today
We have to start with one idea and see where it goes from there. If it flies it will enable us to better grow and support a forum that can otherwise be in whatever disunity it wants in the exercise of free speech, even if it should eventually decide to destroy or redefine the focus that helped create it.
borealis
4th February 2012, 08:27 PM
Honestly, I don't know how to host art without running a much higher (I think unacceptable) risk of finding ourselves hosting illegal content.
Wow. says it all, imo. Any business you attach to mindromp is most likely to end up demanding that opinions and activities be banned or vanillified.
Wow. says it all, imo. Any business you attach to mindromp is most likely to end up demanding that opinions and activities be banned or vanillified.
oblivion
4th February 2012, 08:41 PM
Honestly, I don't know how to host art without running a much higher (I think unacceptable) risk of finding ourselves hosting illegal content.
Wow. says it all, imo. Any business you attach to mindromp is most likely to end up demanding that opinions and activities be banned or vanillified.
If the site's purpose morphs to include hosting art, then I think a few things would have to change or at least get considerably more defined. Like what constitutes porn for the purposes of the webhost. And finding a new webhost or buying and maintaining our own servers might be necessary. Which means additional skill sets needed in order to run the site at all.
None of that is out of the question in terms of future growth and it all IMO fits our core values and responsibilities. Latching onto an existing charity and giving them stuff - time, funds, bandwidth, member effort, whatever - none of that would curtail MR's value of free expression. Making it a two-way street could put free expression at odds with mission.
re something asked earlier, I'll go on record as not experienced at starting up commercial or charitable ventures, and likely lacking the aptitude.
Wow. says it all, imo. Any business you attach to mindromp is most likely to end up demanding that opinions and activities be banned or vanillified.
If the site's purpose morphs to include hosting art, then I think a few things would have to change or at least get considerably more defined. Like what constitutes porn for the purposes of the webhost. And finding a new webhost or buying and maintaining our own servers might be necessary. Which means additional skill sets needed in order to run the site at all.
None of that is out of the question in terms of future growth and it all IMO fits our core values and responsibilities. Latching onto an existing charity and giving them stuff - time, funds, bandwidth, member effort, whatever - none of that would curtail MR's value of free expression. Making it a two-way street could put free expression at odds with mission.
re something asked earlier, I'll go on record as not experienced at starting up commercial or charitable ventures, and likely lacking the aptitude.
FedUpWithFaith
4th February 2012, 08:46 PM
Honestly, I don't know how to host art without running a much higher (I think unacceptable) risk of finding ourselves hosting illegal content.
Wow. says it all, imo. Any business you attach to mindromp is most likely to end up demanding that opinions and activities be banned or vanillified.
That can be avoided or minimized with a good corporate charter subject to approval by the forum by one of a variety of means we could discuss. But I don't want to get ahead of ourselves.
As I said before, at some point it would probably be a good idea to separate the biz and forum in an arm's length manner for many reasons, not just the one you articulated. They may have separate governance and there would be codified rules to protect essential interests and to minimize conflicts of interest.
There are many precedents for this and with the right history and culture it can work. I recall AT&T and Bell Labs before the breakup and dereg. The freedom to do any kind of research at Bell was amazing - rivaling or exceeding the best universities. They funded and supported all sorts of seemingly "crazy" ideas that had no discernable impact to the companies bottom line. They gave Bell almost complete autonomy to explore. That all ended with their monopoly and need to compete.
We do run the risks that the engine we create to drive the MindRomp brand will turn on us. But we can also leverage the fact that we would be setting up a biz for the good of the forum and not a forum for the good of the biz. Charters and constitutions can offer protection but ulitimately, if will depend on the forum culture of the future. Maybe they will become sell-outs.
But nothing is permanent. Not people, forums, companies, nations or worlds.
Wow. says it all, imo. Any business you attach to mindromp is most likely to end up demanding that opinions and activities be banned or vanillified.
That can be avoided or minimized with a good corporate charter subject to approval by the forum by one of a variety of means we could discuss. But I don't want to get ahead of ourselves.
As I said before, at some point it would probably be a good idea to separate the biz and forum in an arm's length manner for many reasons, not just the one you articulated. They may have separate governance and there would be codified rules to protect essential interests and to minimize conflicts of interest.
There are many precedents for this and with the right history and culture it can work. I recall AT&T and Bell Labs before the breakup and dereg. The freedom to do any kind of research at Bell was amazing - rivaling or exceeding the best universities. They funded and supported all sorts of seemingly "crazy" ideas that had no discernable impact to the companies bottom line. They gave Bell almost complete autonomy to explore. That all ended with their monopoly and need to compete.
We do run the risks that the engine we create to drive the MindRomp brand will turn on us. But we can also leverage the fact that we would be setting up a biz for the good of the forum and not a forum for the good of the biz. Charters and constitutions can offer protection but ulitimately, if will depend on the forum culture of the future. Maybe they will become sell-outs.
But nothing is permanent. Not people, forums, companies, nations or worlds.
FedUpWithFaith
4th February 2012, 08:57 PM
..
FedUpWithFaith
4th February 2012, 09:01 PM
Fuck - made the same mistake twice.
Cunt
4th February 2012, 09:07 PM
We do run the risks that the engine we create to drive the MindRomp brand will turn on us.I would want to count on it when setting up the connection. Put failsafe's in place, that kind of thing.
I have told you I would talk to you personally. Everyone agrees that there is a 99% chance that the idea is shit. Not to mention the work is the very valuable part, as you said. I have already pointed out that having the idea stolen by you would be a win from my perspective. How much clearer do I need to spell it out?
I have told you I would talk to you personally. Everyone agrees that there is a 99% chance that the idea is shit. Not to mention the work is the very valuable part, as you said. I have already pointed out that having the idea stolen by you would be a win from my perspective. How much clearer do I need to spell it out?
borealis
4th February 2012, 09:10 PM
If the site's purpose morphs to include hosting art, then I think a few things would have to change or at least get considerably more defined. Like what constitutes porn for the purposes of the webhost. And finding a new webhost or buying and maintaining our own servers might be necessary. Which means additional skill sets needed in order to run the site at all.
I have none of these skill sets, and really appreciate those who do.
I've been largely ignoring the entire original art on the internet scene for years, largely because a lot of what I encountered was interesting but immature or derivative or directed at the webcomic audience (which i do love, webcomics I mean), but also because i couldn't participate with the technology and connectivity levels i had. i have better tech now and could get more, but the connection remains a problem.
But since the art thread got started here, i've been thinking about it more seriously, and the cautions around visual porn are beginning to interest me quite a lot. I need to explore how i feel about this.
None of that is out of the question in terms of future growth and it all IMO fits our core values and responsibilities. Latching onto an existing charity and giving them stuff - time, funds, bandwidth, member effort, whatever - none of that would curtail MR's value of free expression. Making it a two-way street could put free expression at odds with mission.
Yes, that two way street rings alarm bells in my mind.
re something asked earlier, I'll go on record as not experienced at starting up commercial or charitable ventures, and likely lacking the aptitude.
With you there. I'm not very business minded, though I've been on the BOD of two smallish non-profits over the years.
I have none of these skill sets, and really appreciate those who do.
I've been largely ignoring the entire original art on the internet scene for years, largely because a lot of what I encountered was interesting but immature or derivative or directed at the webcomic audience (which i do love, webcomics I mean), but also because i couldn't participate with the technology and connectivity levels i had. i have better tech now and could get more, but the connection remains a problem.
But since the art thread got started here, i've been thinking about it more seriously, and the cautions around visual porn are beginning to interest me quite a lot. I need to explore how i feel about this.
None of that is out of the question in terms of future growth and it all IMO fits our core values and responsibilities. Latching onto an existing charity and giving them stuff - time, funds, bandwidth, member effort, whatever - none of that would curtail MR's value of free expression. Making it a two-way street could put free expression at odds with mission.
Yes, that two way street rings alarm bells in my mind.
re something asked earlier, I'll go on record as not experienced at starting up commercial or charitable ventures, and likely lacking the aptitude.
With you there. I'm not very business minded, though I've been on the BOD of two smallish non-profits over the years.
oblivion
4th February 2012, 09:13 PM
If the site's purpose morphs to include hosting art, then I think a few things would have to change or at least get considerably more defined. Like what constitutes porn for the purposes of the webhost. And finding a new webhost or buying and maintaining our own servers might be necessary. Which means additional skill sets needed in order to run the site at all.
I have none of these skill sets, and really appreciate those who do.
I've been largely ignoring the entire original art on the internet scene for years, largely because a lot of what I encountered was interesting but immature or derivative or directed at the webcomic audience (which i do love, webcomics I mean), but also because i couldn't participate with the technology and connectivity levels i had. i have better tech now and could get more, but the connection remains a problem.
But since the art thread got started here, i've been thinking about it more seriously, and the cautions around visual porn are beginning to interest me quite a lot. I need to explore how i feel about this.
None of that is out of the question in terms of future growth and it all IMO fits our core values and responsibilities. Latching onto an existing charity and giving them stuff - time, funds, bandwidth, member effort, whatever - none of that would curtail MR's value of free expression. Making it a two-way street could put free expression at odds with mission.Yes, that two way street rings alarm bells in my mind.
re something asked earlier, I'll go on record as not experienced at starting up commercial or charitable ventures, and likely lacking the aptitude.With you there. I'm not very business minded, though I've been on the BOD of two smallish non-profits over the years.
I've thrown heart and soul into a few non-profit causes, but not at all in the running-it department.
I have none of these skill sets, and really appreciate those who do.
I've been largely ignoring the entire original art on the internet scene for years, largely because a lot of what I encountered was interesting but immature or derivative or directed at the webcomic audience (which i do love, webcomics I mean), but also because i couldn't participate with the technology and connectivity levels i had. i have better tech now and could get more, but the connection remains a problem.
But since the art thread got started here, i've been thinking about it more seriously, and the cautions around visual porn are beginning to interest me quite a lot. I need to explore how i feel about this.
None of that is out of the question in terms of future growth and it all IMO fits our core values and responsibilities. Latching onto an existing charity and giving them stuff - time, funds, bandwidth, member effort, whatever - none of that would curtail MR's value of free expression. Making it a two-way street could put free expression at odds with mission.Yes, that two way street rings alarm bells in my mind.
re something asked earlier, I'll go on record as not experienced at starting up commercial or charitable ventures, and likely lacking the aptitude.With you there. I'm not very business minded, though I've been on the BOD of two smallish non-profits over the years.
I've thrown heart and soul into a few non-profit causes, but not at all in the running-it department.
Hermit
5th February 2012, 12:12 AM
There was mention of copyrighting, site/trademarking and whatnot a short while ago. Fantastic. If we become a big enough foundation or charity with lots of IPs to defend, we could spend a million dollars a year in legal fees suing hundreds of smaller charities for trespassing on our turf. The Susan G. Komen Foundation is leading the way. We could emulate it. Its rationale is after all perfectly reasonable.Komen's general counsel, Jonathan Blum, told HuffPost that the fundraising powerhouse tries to be reasonable when dealing with small charities and nonprofits, but that it has a legal duty to protect its more than 200 registered trademarks.
"It's never our goal to shut down a nonprofit," he said, "and we try very hard to be reasonable, but it's still our obligation to make sure that our trademarks are used appropriately so there's no confusion in the marketplace over where people's money is going."
(Read more here.) (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/07/komen-foundation-charities-cure_n_793176.html)
Good luck with your Idea, Cunt.
"It's never our goal to shut down a nonprofit," he said, "and we try very hard to be reasonable, but it's still our obligation to make sure that our trademarks are used appropriately so there's no confusion in the marketplace over where people's money is going."
(Read more here.) (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/07/komen-foundation-charities-cure_n_793176.html)
Good luck with your Idea, Cunt.
Cunt
5th February 2012, 01:09 AM
This is ridiculous.
We are involved in business, every one of us, every day. Here is a chance to do it in a way that could suck less, and all anyone can do is share portents of doom.
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee174/Darren8306/Weareborn.jpg
I find it inspiring.
We are involved in business, every one of us, every day. Here is a chance to do it in a way that could suck less, and all anyone can do is share portents of doom.
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee174/Darren8306/Weareborn.jpg
I find it inspiring.
charlou
5th February 2012, 01:19 AM
Buy another site and do it then Cunt. I will take a look. :)
charlou
5th February 2012, 01:25 AM
Your big Idea, like god, can only draw skepticism when you cannot even furnish evidence for what it is.
There's been denial that the big Idea is an idea for the forum, while everything being said about the Idea has related the forum to it.
I'm not interested. Sorry.
There's been denial that the big Idea is an idea for the forum, while everything being said about the Idea has related the forum to it.
I'm not interested. Sorry.
Cunt
5th February 2012, 01:33 AM
I am not going to, because as it turns out, it sucks.
But I did leave one for an example (because I would like to know how to approach this again).
I suggested the amazon thingy. There is evidence on the amazon site.
So glad to see that you have taken charge and forbidden it, though.
But I did leave one for an example (because I would like to know how to approach this again).
I suggested the amazon thingy. There is evidence on the amazon site.
So glad to see that you have taken charge and forbidden it, though.
Hermit
5th February 2012, 01:51 AM
I don't see how Elouise has forbidden anything. All I can see that she doesn't want your Idea integrated with this forum, and she wants you to take it elsewhere. Her right to express her opinions, no matter how bluntly put, is the same as yours and mine.
You are stretching your interpretation of what she is saying beyond breaking point. I am referring to this bit: "So glad to see that you have taken charge and forbidden it" The exaggeration is on such a scale that you look like someone tilting at a windmill because he mistook it for a dragon.
You are stretching your interpretation of what she is saying beyond breaking point. I am referring to this bit: "So glad to see that you have taken charge and forbidden it" The exaggeration is on such a scale that you look like someone tilting at a windmill because he mistook it for a dragon.
amused
5th February 2012, 01:56 AM
Just install some malware on the MR site that phishes credit card data from every visitor's computer and then charges them $5 per post. :thumbsup:
Hermit
5th February 2012, 02:18 AM
Just install some malware on the MR site that phishes credit card data from every visitor's computer and then charges them $5 per post. :thumbsup:Check your account. You'll find that you are $125 down.
amused
5th February 2012, 02:22 AM
:hehe:
Hey...wait...
Hey...wait...
Dan B
5th February 2012, 02:56 AM
How am I to be compensated for my contributions to this money making enterprise?
Cunt
5th February 2012, 03:15 AM
Work in a paid position, I would imagine. Depends on the idea, and the implementation.
If you are talking about the amazon thing, my guess is not at all. If you are talking about another possibility, I don't know. I do think it would be great if we could pay for a few jobs, though...
If you are talking about the amazon thing, my guess is not at all. If you are talking about another possibility, I don't know. I do think it would be great if we could pay for a few jobs, though...
Dan B
5th February 2012, 03:27 AM
If you are talking about the amazon thing, my guess is not at all. If you are talking about another possibility, I don't know. I do think it would be great if we could pay for a few jobs, though...
Didn't read the thread past a few sentences in the OP. So... you know... I don't know what you're talking about there. Maybe I'll go back and read some more.
Basically, I was referring to the revenue opportunities generated by the attraction realized due to my presence, participation, and engagement here.
I have a general preference for stock and revenue sharing as opposed to salaried compensation.
Didn't read the thread past a few sentences in the OP. So... you know... I don't know what you're talking about there. Maybe I'll go back and read some more.
Basically, I was referring to the revenue opportunities generated by the attraction realized due to my presence, participation, and engagement here.
I have a general preference for stock and revenue sharing as opposed to salaried compensation.
Cunt
5th February 2012, 03:39 AM
If you are talking about the amazon thing, my guess is not at all. If you are talking about another possibility, I don't know. I do think it would be great if we could pay for a few jobs, though...
Didn't read the thread past a few sentences in the OP. So... you know... I don't know what you're talking about there. Maybe I'll go back and read some more.
Basically, I was referring to the revenue opportunities generated by the attraction realized due to my presence, participation, and engagement here.
I have a general preference for stock and revenue sharing as opposed to salaried compensation.
It will depend on the results of the indifference curve assessment
Didn't read the thread past a few sentences in the OP. So... you know... I don't know what you're talking about there. Maybe I'll go back and read some more.
Basically, I was referring to the revenue opportunities generated by the attraction realized due to my presence, participation, and engagement here.
I have a general preference for stock and revenue sharing as opposed to salaried compensation.
It will depend on the results of the indifference curve assessment
FedUpWithFaith
5th February 2012, 04:44 AM
Posted this in the other thread but should probably be here. I hope you respond Cunt because I think the way you're handling this undermines your own good intentions...
This type of ideation is not very productive and I predict these discussions attempting to demand, suggest, or decry whether we should pursue a charity, business, or some other paradigm will go nowhere. But they WILL wear every one out to the point that we do nothing. Maybe that's the point, to filibuster so we do exactly that and keep the status quo.
Whenever people focus only on meta-analysis of something (how we would exploit some neat idea if we had it) instead of the something itself (the idea) it leads nowhere. Lawyers love it, that's about it.
We should be brainstorming ideas that are cool that would make people passionate about coming to MR and staying. That's the fun part. The ideas need to be fleshed out here in the open. That's fun. When we see a cool idea we'll know it and I trust the membership to decide, at that point, how best to leverage it, i.e., via charity, business, or some hybrid means.
For those worried about biz/money ideas well, you have one little safeguard provided by human nature - greed. Most people with million dollar ideas who seek to control others will develop them on their own elsewhere. This site is no commerical IdeaLab or incubator.
This type of ideation is not very productive and I predict these discussions attempting to demand, suggest, or decry whether we should pursue a charity, business, or some other paradigm will go nowhere. But they WILL wear every one out to the point that we do nothing. Maybe that's the point, to filibuster so we do exactly that and keep the status quo.
Whenever people focus only on meta-analysis of something (how we would exploit some neat idea if we had it) instead of the something itself (the idea) it leads nowhere. Lawyers love it, that's about it.
We should be brainstorming ideas that are cool that would make people passionate about coming to MR and staying. That's the fun part. The ideas need to be fleshed out here in the open. That's fun. When we see a cool idea we'll know it and I trust the membership to decide, at that point, how best to leverage it, i.e., via charity, business, or some hybrid means.
For those worried about biz/money ideas well, you have one little safeguard provided by human nature - greed. Most people with million dollar ideas who seek to control others will develop them on their own elsewhere. This site is no commerical IdeaLab or incubator.
Grumps
5th February 2012, 04:48 AM
Posted this in the other thread but should probably be here. I hope you respond Cunt because I think the way you're handling this undermines your own good intentions...
This type of ideation is not very productive and I predict these discussions attempting to demand, suggest, or decry whether we should pursue a charity, business, or some other paradigm will go nowhere. But they WILL wear every one out to the point that we do nothing. Maybe that's the point, to filibuster so we do exactly that and keep the status quo.
Whenever people focus only on meta-analysis of something (how we would exploit some neat idea if we had it) instead of the something itself (the idea) it leads nowhere. Lawyers love it, that's about it.
We should be brainstorming ideas that are cool that would make people passionate about coming to MR and staying. That's the fun part. The ideas need to be fleshed out here in the open. That's fun. When we see a cool idea we'll know it and I trust the membership to decide, at that point, how best to leverage it, i.e., via charity, business, or some hybrid means.
For those worried about biz/money ideas well, you have one little safeguard provided by human nature - greed. Most people with million dollar ideas who seek to control others will develop them on their own elsewhere. This site is no commerical IdeaLab or incubator.
So, are you going to actually explain how you'll manage to get this to work? Go on, share with us your grand idea of how to make anyone give a shit about the website.
This type of ideation is not very productive and I predict these discussions attempting to demand, suggest, or decry whether we should pursue a charity, business, or some other paradigm will go nowhere. But they WILL wear every one out to the point that we do nothing. Maybe that's the point, to filibuster so we do exactly that and keep the status quo.
Whenever people focus only on meta-analysis of something (how we would exploit some neat idea if we had it) instead of the something itself (the idea) it leads nowhere. Lawyers love it, that's about it.
We should be brainstorming ideas that are cool that would make people passionate about coming to MR and staying. That's the fun part. The ideas need to be fleshed out here in the open. That's fun. When we see a cool idea we'll know it and I trust the membership to decide, at that point, how best to leverage it, i.e., via charity, business, or some hybrid means.
For those worried about biz/money ideas well, you have one little safeguard provided by human nature - greed. Most people with million dollar ideas who seek to control others will develop them on their own elsewhere. This site is no commerical IdeaLab or incubator.
So, are you going to actually explain how you'll manage to get this to work? Go on, share with us your grand idea of how to make anyone give a shit about the website.
FedUpWithFaith
5th February 2012, 04:52 AM
There was mention of copyrighting, site/trademarking and whatnot a short while ago. Fantastic. If we become a big enough foundation or charity with lots of IPs to defend, we could spend a million dollars a year in legal fees suing hundreds of smaller charities for trespassing on our turf. The Susan G. Komen Foundation is leading the way. We could emulate it. Its rationale is after all perfectly reasonable.Komen's general counsel, Jonathan Blum, told HuffPost that the fundraising powerhouse tries to be reasonable when dealing with small charities and nonprofits, but that it has a legal duty to protect its more than 200 registered trademarks.
"It's never our goal to shut down a nonprofit," he said, "and we try very hard to be reasonable, but it's still our obligation to make sure that our trademarks are used appropriately so there's no confusion in the marketplace over where people's money is going."
(Read more here.) (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/07/komen-foundation-charities-cure_n_793176.html)
Good luck with your Idea, Cunt.
Komen has slowly been heading itself off at the pass with this BS. The recent PP debacle is a good example. I would not want to be that kind of bully and most charities are not that bad, nor are businesses. The IP world is such a minefield that there is a high cost to attack and significant risks too. Mostly only huge companies and charities go on the attack.
But to stand you assertion on its head, they pay these millions in these legal fights because, like it or not, they have been successful raking in many times more.
Generally, one wants to protect their IP first to prevent others from blocking them, not vice versa.
"It's never our goal to shut down a nonprofit," he said, "and we try very hard to be reasonable, but it's still our obligation to make sure that our trademarks are used appropriately so there's no confusion in the marketplace over where people's money is going."
(Read more here.) (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/07/komen-foundation-charities-cure_n_793176.html)
Good luck with your Idea, Cunt.
Komen has slowly been heading itself off at the pass with this BS. The recent PP debacle is a good example. I would not want to be that kind of bully and most charities are not that bad, nor are businesses. The IP world is such a minefield that there is a high cost to attack and significant risks too. Mostly only huge companies and charities go on the attack.
But to stand you assertion on its head, they pay these millions in these legal fights because, like it or not, they have been successful raking in many times more.
Generally, one wants to protect their IP first to prevent others from blocking them, not vice versa.
Cunt
5th February 2012, 04:52 AM
I think providing a voice for people who don't have one is a good thing to do.
I know that a communication company tried to pitch a website with that kind of goal to a not-for-profit group and nearly got it through (along with maintenance costs upward of 50k/year)
Some of the really good things we would all do anyway can actually pay money.
I think FedUpWithFaith is right about the meta-analysis, though. Even with a 'dummy' idea in place it is tough to get my teeth into. I real idea which could really happen could be thought of really.
And how is it that we got YOU to give a shit about this website?
I know that a communication company tried to pitch a website with that kind of goal to a not-for-profit group and nearly got it through (along with maintenance costs upward of 50k/year)
Some of the really good things we would all do anyway can actually pay money.
I think FedUpWithFaith is right about the meta-analysis, though. Even with a 'dummy' idea in place it is tough to get my teeth into. I real idea which could really happen could be thought of really.
And how is it that we got YOU to give a shit about this website?
FedUpWithFaith
5th February 2012, 04:59 AM
Posted this in the other thread but should probably be here. I hope you respond Cunt because I think the way you're handling this undermines your own good intentions...
This type of ideation is not very productive and I predict these discussions attempting to demand, suggest, or decry whether we should pursue a charity, business, or some other paradigm will go nowhere. But they WILL wear every one out to the point that we do nothing. Maybe that's the point, to filibuster so we do exactly that and keep the status quo.
Whenever people focus only on meta-analysis of something (how we would exploit some neat idea if we had it) instead of the something itself (the idea) it leads nowhere. Lawyers love it, that's about it.
We should be brainstorming ideas that are cool that would make people passionate about coming to MR and staying. That's the fun part. The ideas need to be fleshed out here in the open. That's fun. When we see a cool idea we'll know it and I trust the membership to decide, at that point, how best to leverage it, i.e., via charity, business, or some hybrid means.
For those worried about biz/money ideas well, you have one little safeguard provided by human nature - greed. Most people with million dollar ideas who seek to control others will develop them on their own elsewhere. This site is no commerical IdeaLab or incubator.
So, are you going to actually explain how you'll manage to get this to work? Go on, share with us your grand idea of how to make anyone give a shit about the website.
I've already discussed this in earlier posts. I don't have THE answer. Hoping for a grand idea is like hoping to win the lottery. I have already outlined several ideas that would better position us to develop/grow a mission from baby steps. And even if they failed, they would still give us fun new modes of communcation, e.g., targeted YouTube channels associated with the forum. If the brainstorming and ideation isn't fun this will fail. It already is failing because we're focused on negative potential meta problems instead of positive ideation.
Just thought of this - people here and on other sites seem to love these Mafia games. Think about how you could make them more fun by incrementally adding new communication channels, potentially enabling even different forums to play together. Don't know enough about Mafia yet to see the potential. Who knows, maybe someone at MR will invent a new game inspired by this that will become all the rage.
Again Coolidge - "Success is opportunity meeting preparedness".
This type of ideation is not very productive and I predict these discussions attempting to demand, suggest, or decry whether we should pursue a charity, business, or some other paradigm will go nowhere. But they WILL wear every one out to the point that we do nothing. Maybe that's the point, to filibuster so we do exactly that and keep the status quo.
Whenever people focus only on meta-analysis of something (how we would exploit some neat idea if we had it) instead of the something itself (the idea) it leads nowhere. Lawyers love it, that's about it.
We should be brainstorming ideas that are cool that would make people passionate about coming to MR and staying. That's the fun part. The ideas need to be fleshed out here in the open. That's fun. When we see a cool idea we'll know it and I trust the membership to decide, at that point, how best to leverage it, i.e., via charity, business, or some hybrid means.
For those worried about biz/money ideas well, you have one little safeguard provided by human nature - greed. Most people with million dollar ideas who seek to control others will develop them on their own elsewhere. This site is no commerical IdeaLab or incubator.
So, are you going to actually explain how you'll manage to get this to work? Go on, share with us your grand idea of how to make anyone give a shit about the website.
I've already discussed this in earlier posts. I don't have THE answer. Hoping for a grand idea is like hoping to win the lottery. I have already outlined several ideas that would better position us to develop/grow a mission from baby steps. And even if they failed, they would still give us fun new modes of communcation, e.g., targeted YouTube channels associated with the forum. If the brainstorming and ideation isn't fun this will fail. It already is failing because we're focused on negative potential meta problems instead of positive ideation.
Just thought of this - people here and on other sites seem to love these Mafia games. Think about how you could make them more fun by incrementally adding new communication channels, potentially enabling even different forums to play together. Don't know enough about Mafia yet to see the potential. Who knows, maybe someone at MR will invent a new game inspired by this that will become all the rage.
Again Coolidge - "Success is opportunity meeting preparedness".
charlou
5th February 2012, 08:43 AM
I think providing a voice for people who don't have one is a good thing to do.
There's no question that I agree with and support this idea.
But this:
I know that a communication company tried to pitch a website with that kind of goal to a not-for-profit group and nearly got it through (along with maintenance costs upward of 50k/year)
Some of the really good things we would all do anyway can actually pay money.
I think FedUpWithFaith is right about the meta-analysis, though. Even with a 'dummy' idea in place it is tough to get my teeth into. I real idea which could really happen could be thought of really.
I have trouble connecting with the opening statement .. partly because there's a heap of blank space in between the two that should be filled in, and partly because I'd like to know how making communication accessible to all can be profitable in a financial sense, without somehow infringing on integrity and without becoming exploited. Someone .. you or FUWF .. mentioned greed, and seemed to think it was a good thing, a way to get people to become involved. I don't think greed is a good motive for helping others .. in fact the two are at odds, in my view.
And how is it that we got YOU to give a shit about this website?
Go back to the opening statement of your post for a good part of how I give a shit about this website. ;)
There's no question that I agree with and support this idea.
But this:
I know that a communication company tried to pitch a website with that kind of goal to a not-for-profit group and nearly got it through (along with maintenance costs upward of 50k/year)
Some of the really good things we would all do anyway can actually pay money.
I think FedUpWithFaith is right about the meta-analysis, though. Even with a 'dummy' idea in place it is tough to get my teeth into. I real idea which could really happen could be thought of really.
I have trouble connecting with the opening statement .. partly because there's a heap of blank space in between the two that should be filled in, and partly because I'd like to know how making communication accessible to all can be profitable in a financial sense, without somehow infringing on integrity and without becoming exploited. Someone .. you or FUWF .. mentioned greed, and seemed to think it was a good thing, a way to get people to become involved. I don't think greed is a good motive for helping others .. in fact the two are at odds, in my view.
And how is it that we got YOU to give a shit about this website?
Go back to the opening statement of your post for a good part of how I give a shit about this website. ;)
FedUpWithFaith
5th February 2012, 09:16 AM
Someone .. you or FUWF .. mentioned greed, and seemed to think it was a good thing, a way to get people to become involved. I don't think greed is a good motive for helping others .. in fact the two are at odds, in my view.
It wasn't me. Greed never accomplishes anything good without doing some harm and can often do no good at all. I've been very mindful of pointing out the dangers of any form of venture; commericial, charity, or otherwise, But I'm not sure everyone would agree with my terminology since most people often use greed as a synonym fo self-interest. For me, greed is self-interest plotted deliberately at the expense of others as if everything was a zero-sum game. Self-interest alone is usually beneficial or benign. We all do engage in it, even when we act charitably.
I think Cunt was being sloppy in terminology, that's all. I think you need to cut him some slack and don't assume money makes everything dirty. But he can even make a case for greed if he wants to. Bill Gates is or was greedy. He engaged in arguably immoral business practices on numerous occassions and could be very ruthless. But now his foundation reaped from those methods is the largest charity in the world and does tremendous good. We can agree that there is an argument about ends justifying means. But it's not a no-brainer.
It wasn't me. Greed never accomplishes anything good without doing some harm and can often do no good at all. I've been very mindful of pointing out the dangers of any form of venture; commericial, charity, or otherwise, But I'm not sure everyone would agree with my terminology since most people often use greed as a synonym fo self-interest. For me, greed is self-interest plotted deliberately at the expense of others as if everything was a zero-sum game. Self-interest alone is usually beneficial or benign. We all do engage in it, even when we act charitably.
I think Cunt was being sloppy in terminology, that's all. I think you need to cut him some slack and don't assume money makes everything dirty. But he can even make a case for greed if he wants to. Bill Gates is or was greedy. He engaged in arguably immoral business practices on numerous occassions and could be very ruthless. But now his foundation reaped from those methods is the largest charity in the world and does tremendous good. We can agree that there is an argument about ends justifying means. But it's not a no-brainer.
Hermit
5th February 2012, 09:41 AM
Someone .. you or FUWF .. mentioned greed, and seemed to think it was a good thing, a way to get people to become involved.Adam Smith put it this way: "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages." And from a frequently quote-mined chapter of the same book: "...he intends only his own gain, and he is in this, as in many other cases, led by an invisible hand to promote an end which was no part of his intention. Nor is it always the worse for the society that it was not part of it. By pursuing his own interest he frequently promotes that of the society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it." The notion that in principle private greed results in public good is particularly popular in North America.
Edit: Having noted FedUpWithFaith's denial of having expressed such a sentiment, which he voiced while I was still writing this one, I had a look around and found no evidence that either he or Cunt said anything of the sort. The part of this post above the word "edit" is therefore basically irrelevant to the topic we are discussing.
Edit: Having noted FedUpWithFaith's denial of having expressed such a sentiment, which he voiced while I was still writing this one, I had a look around and found no evidence that either he or Cunt said anything of the sort. The part of this post above the word "edit" is therefore basically irrelevant to the topic we are discussing.
FedUpWithFaith
5th February 2012, 09:54 AM
Someone .. you or FUWF .. mentioned greed, and seemed to think it was a good thing, a way to get people to become involved.Adam Smith put it this way: "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages." And from a frequently quote-mined chapter of the same book: "...he intends only his own gain, and he is in this, as in many other cases, led by an invisible hand to promote an end which was no part of his intention. Nor is it always the worse for the society that it was not part of it. By pursuing his own interest he frequently promotes that of the society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it." The notion that in principle private greed results in public good is particularly popular in North America.
Hmmm, so are you equating greed with self-interest? I'd really like to see you try to argue that pursuit of self-interest does not serve the public good. I believe the later is what most Americans believe, not in "greed is good" as in Stone's "Wall Street" though there are many Americans that do.
Smith was superceded by Nash anyway. Optimal beneficial results are not obtained by an either/or pursuit of self-interest vs. group interest but by considering both the self and the group in decisions of self-interest. This is a foundation of game theory.
Note in edit: I wrote the above before Seraph's edit above. And I appreciate Seraph's diligence in setting the matter straight.
Hmmm, so are you equating greed with self-interest? I'd really like to see you try to argue that pursuit of self-interest does not serve the public good. I believe the later is what most Americans believe, not in "greed is good" as in Stone's "Wall Street" though there are many Americans that do.
Smith was superceded by Nash anyway. Optimal beneficial results are not obtained by an either/or pursuit of self-interest vs. group interest but by considering both the self and the group in decisions of self-interest. This is a foundation of game theory.
Note in edit: I wrote the above before Seraph's edit above. And I appreciate Seraph's diligence in setting the matter straight.
charlou
5th February 2012, 10:37 AM
I found the post: http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?p=15059&highlight=greed#post15059
On reread, I see I had misunderstood your use of the word there, FUWF.
I think the rest of my comments stand.
Certainly my agreement with Cunt's opening statement, and the trouble I have connecting it to what he followed it up with.
On reread, I see I had misunderstood your use of the word there, FUWF.
I think the rest of my comments stand.
Certainly my agreement with Cunt's opening statement, and the trouble I have connecting it to what he followed it up with.
Grumps
5th February 2012, 12:03 PM
Posted this in the other thread but should probably be here. I hope you respond Cunt because I think the way you're handling this undermines your own good intentions...
This type of ideation is not very productive and I predict these discussions attempting to demand, suggest, or decry whether we should pursue a charity, business, or some other paradigm will go nowhere. But they WILL wear every one out to the point that we do nothing. Maybe that's the point, to filibuster so we do exactly that and keep the status quo.
Whenever people focus only on meta-analysis of something (how we would exploit some neat idea if we had it) instead of the something itself (the idea) it leads nowhere. Lawyers love it, that's about it.
We should be brainstorming ideas that are cool that would make people passionate about coming to MR and staying. That's the fun part. The ideas need to be fleshed out here in the open. That's fun. When we see a cool idea we'll know it and I trust the membership to decide, at that point, how best to leverage it, i.e., via charity, business, or some hybrid means.
For those worried about biz/money ideas well, you have one little safeguard provided by human nature - greed. Most people with million dollar ideas who seek to control others will develop them on their own elsewhere. This site is no commerical IdeaLab or incubator.
So, are you going to actually explain how you'll manage to get this to work? Go on, share with us your grand idea of how to make anyone give a shit about the website.
I've already discussed this in earlier posts. I don't have THE answer. Hoping for a grand idea is like hoping to win the lottery. I have already outlined several ideas that would better position us to develop/grow a mission from baby steps. And even if they failed, they would still give us fun new modes of communcation, e.g., targeted YouTube channels associated with the forum. If the brainstorming and ideation isn't fun this will fail. It already is failing because we're focused on negative potential meta problems instead of positive ideation.
Just thought of this - people here and on other sites seem to love these Mafia games. Think about how you could make them more fun by incrementally adding new communication channels, potentially enabling even different forums to play together. Don't know enough about Mafia yet to see the potential. Who knows, maybe someone at MR will invent a new game inspired by this that will become all the rage.
Again Coolidge - "Success is opportunity meeting preparedness".
It's not my job to be enthusiastic about your idea.
It's your job to sell it.
Quite frankly, you're doing a terrible job.
There's no consistency in your posts, no clear direction, you're just hurling things at the wall and hoping they'll stick.
This type of ideation is not very productive and I predict these discussions attempting to demand, suggest, or decry whether we should pursue a charity, business, or some other paradigm will go nowhere. But they WILL wear every one out to the point that we do nothing. Maybe that's the point, to filibuster so we do exactly that and keep the status quo.
Whenever people focus only on meta-analysis of something (how we would exploit some neat idea if we had it) instead of the something itself (the idea) it leads nowhere. Lawyers love it, that's about it.
We should be brainstorming ideas that are cool that would make people passionate about coming to MR and staying. That's the fun part. The ideas need to be fleshed out here in the open. That's fun. When we see a cool idea we'll know it and I trust the membership to decide, at that point, how best to leverage it, i.e., via charity, business, or some hybrid means.
For those worried about biz/money ideas well, you have one little safeguard provided by human nature - greed. Most people with million dollar ideas who seek to control others will develop them on their own elsewhere. This site is no commerical IdeaLab or incubator.
So, are you going to actually explain how you'll manage to get this to work? Go on, share with us your grand idea of how to make anyone give a shit about the website.
I've already discussed this in earlier posts. I don't have THE answer. Hoping for a grand idea is like hoping to win the lottery. I have already outlined several ideas that would better position us to develop/grow a mission from baby steps. And even if they failed, they would still give us fun new modes of communcation, e.g., targeted YouTube channels associated with the forum. If the brainstorming and ideation isn't fun this will fail. It already is failing because we're focused on negative potential meta problems instead of positive ideation.
Just thought of this - people here and on other sites seem to love these Mafia games. Think about how you could make them more fun by incrementally adding new communication channels, potentially enabling even different forums to play together. Don't know enough about Mafia yet to see the potential. Who knows, maybe someone at MR will invent a new game inspired by this that will become all the rage.
Again Coolidge - "Success is opportunity meeting preparedness".
It's not my job to be enthusiastic about your idea.
It's your job to sell it.
Quite frankly, you're doing a terrible job.
There's no consistency in your posts, no clear direction, you're just hurling things at the wall and hoping they'll stick.
Adenosine
5th February 2012, 12:39 PM
We do run the risks that the engine we create to drive the MindRomp brand will turn on us.I would want to count on it when setting up the connection. Put failsafe's in place, that kind of thing.
I have told you I would talk to you personally. Everyone agrees that there is a 99% chance that the idea is shit. Not to mention the work is the very valuable part, as you said. I have already pointed out that having the idea stolen by you would be a win from my perspective. How much clearer do I need to spell it out?
I don't agree because I don't know what the idea is.
I really like the core values of this site, mainly because I see them being eroded all over the world in favour of big business. Which makes me wonder how free speech can co-exist with big money.
Posted this in the other thread but should probably be here. I hope you respond Cunt because I think the way you're handling this undermines your own good intentions...
This type of ideation is not very productive and I predict these discussions attempting to demand, suggest, or decry whether we should pursue a charity, business, or some other paradigm will go nowhere. But they WILL wear every one out to the point that we do nothing. Maybe that's the point, to filibuster so we do exactly that and keep the status quo.
Whenever people focus only on meta-analysis of something (how we would exploit some neat idea if we had it) instead of the something itself (the idea) it leads nowhere. Lawyers love it, that's about it.
We should be brainstorming ideas that are cool that would make people passionate about coming to MR and staying. That's the fun part. The ideas need to be fleshed out here in the open. That's fun. When we see a cool idea we'll know it and I trust the membership to decide, at that point, how best to leverage it, i.e., via charity, business, or some hybrid means.
For those worried about biz/money ideas well, you have one little safeguard provided by human nature - greed. Most people with million dollar ideas who seek to control others will develop them on their own elsewhere. This site is no commerical IdeaLab or incubator.
So, are you going to actually explain how you'll manage to get this to work? Go on, share with us your grand idea of how to make anyone give a shit about the website.
I've already discussed this in earlier posts. I don't have THE answer. Hoping for a grand idea is like hoping to win the lottery. I have already outlined several ideas that would better position us to develop/grow a mission from baby steps. And even if they failed, they would still give us fun new modes of communcation, e.g., targeted YouTube channels associated with the forum. If the brainstorming and ideation isn't fun this will fail. It already is failing because we're focused on negative potential meta problems instead of positive ideation.
Just thought of this - people here and on other sites seem to love these Mafia games. Think about how you could make them more fun by incrementally adding new communication channels, potentially enabling even different forums to play together. Don't know enough about Mafia yet to see the potential. Who knows, maybe someone at MR will invent a new game inspired by this that will become all the rage.
Again Coolidge - "Success is opportunity meeting preparedness".
It's not my job to be enthusiastic about your idea.
It's your job to sell it.
Quite frankly, you're doing a terrible job.
There's no consistency in your posts, no clear direction, you're just hurling things at the wall and hoping they'll stick.
As far as I'm concerned that's how this stuff works. That's why they call it spitballing.
I have told you I would talk to you personally. Everyone agrees that there is a 99% chance that the idea is shit. Not to mention the work is the very valuable part, as you said. I have already pointed out that having the idea stolen by you would be a win from my perspective. How much clearer do I need to spell it out?
I don't agree because I don't know what the idea is.
I really like the core values of this site, mainly because I see them being eroded all over the world in favour of big business. Which makes me wonder how free speech can co-exist with big money.
Posted this in the other thread but should probably be here. I hope you respond Cunt because I think the way you're handling this undermines your own good intentions...
This type of ideation is not very productive and I predict these discussions attempting to demand, suggest, or decry whether we should pursue a charity, business, or some other paradigm will go nowhere. But they WILL wear every one out to the point that we do nothing. Maybe that's the point, to filibuster so we do exactly that and keep the status quo.
Whenever people focus only on meta-analysis of something (how we would exploit some neat idea if we had it) instead of the something itself (the idea) it leads nowhere. Lawyers love it, that's about it.
We should be brainstorming ideas that are cool that would make people passionate about coming to MR and staying. That's the fun part. The ideas need to be fleshed out here in the open. That's fun. When we see a cool idea we'll know it and I trust the membership to decide, at that point, how best to leverage it, i.e., via charity, business, or some hybrid means.
For those worried about biz/money ideas well, you have one little safeguard provided by human nature - greed. Most people with million dollar ideas who seek to control others will develop them on their own elsewhere. This site is no commerical IdeaLab or incubator.
So, are you going to actually explain how you'll manage to get this to work? Go on, share with us your grand idea of how to make anyone give a shit about the website.
I've already discussed this in earlier posts. I don't have THE answer. Hoping for a grand idea is like hoping to win the lottery. I have already outlined several ideas that would better position us to develop/grow a mission from baby steps. And even if they failed, they would still give us fun new modes of communcation, e.g., targeted YouTube channels associated with the forum. If the brainstorming and ideation isn't fun this will fail. It already is failing because we're focused on negative potential meta problems instead of positive ideation.
Just thought of this - people here and on other sites seem to love these Mafia games. Think about how you could make them more fun by incrementally adding new communication channels, potentially enabling even different forums to play together. Don't know enough about Mafia yet to see the potential. Who knows, maybe someone at MR will invent a new game inspired by this that will become all the rage.
Again Coolidge - "Success is opportunity meeting preparedness".
It's not my job to be enthusiastic about your idea.
It's your job to sell it.
Quite frankly, you're doing a terrible job.
There's no consistency in your posts, no clear direction, you're just hurling things at the wall and hoping they'll stick.
As far as I'm concerned that's how this stuff works. That's why they call it spitballing.
devogue
5th February 2012, 01:22 PM
OBC died three and a half years ago over this sort of shit.
There's no money to be made. EVER.
Wankers.
Seraph and Elouise - see you soon in NZ (can't wait - purity durch beauty).
Look at this. As usual everything is poisoned.
There's no money to be made. EVER.
Wankers.
Seraph and Elouise - see you soon in NZ (can't wait - purity durch beauty).
Look at this. As usual everything is poisoned.
oblivion
5th February 2012, 02:02 PM
OBC died three and a half years ago over this sort of shit.
There's no money to be made. EVER.
Wankers.
Seraph and Elouise - see you soon in NZ (can't wait - purity durch beauty).
Look at this. As usual everything is poisoned.
Well, charismatic leaders of sexy causes sometimes make a bit on the side. :D But history suggests that sort of thing usually if not always ends in tears.
I could be wrong, but I don't get the sense that this is a seeds of destruction disagreement.
I'm glad you're still around and interested in how things go, dev. :hug:
There's no money to be made. EVER.
Wankers.
Seraph and Elouise - see you soon in NZ (can't wait - purity durch beauty).
Look at this. As usual everything is poisoned.
Well, charismatic leaders of sexy causes sometimes make a bit on the side. :D But history suggests that sort of thing usually if not always ends in tears.
I could be wrong, but I don't get the sense that this is a seeds of destruction disagreement.
I'm glad you're still around and interested in how things go, dev. :hug:
Grumps
5th February 2012, 03:20 PM
As far as I'm concerned that's how this stuff works. That's why they call it spitballing.
That's not how selling an idea works. It's how forming one works.
The fact that they have no idea at all as to the direction they want to take this means everything.
I can't even disagree with them, because there's nothing coherent to disagree with it.
Cunt supposedly had a wonderful idea, then realised it was a shit idea, without ever telling anyone just what it was. Well thought out, bro. Nice to see you put so much careful planning in to forming it.
FUWF, meanwhile, is throwing half-thoughts of non-ideas around like a monkey with dirrohea and expecting us to jump in his patch-work dinghy all grins and nods.
This is a forum. The only way to make this commercially successful is to come up with a service or product that people actually want (or create a demand, and then create a product to satisfy it), and slap a forum at the tail end.
Either way, this forum itself has no part to play. A forum is what you use to engage your customers, it is not what you sell.
That's not how selling an idea works. It's how forming one works.
The fact that they have no idea at all as to the direction they want to take this means everything.
I can't even disagree with them, because there's nothing coherent to disagree with it.
Cunt supposedly had a wonderful idea, then realised it was a shit idea, without ever telling anyone just what it was. Well thought out, bro. Nice to see you put so much careful planning in to forming it.
FUWF, meanwhile, is throwing half-thoughts of non-ideas around like a monkey with dirrohea and expecting us to jump in his patch-work dinghy all grins and nods.
This is a forum. The only way to make this commercially successful is to come up with a service or product that people actually want (or create a demand, and then create a product to satisfy it), and slap a forum at the tail end.
Either way, this forum itself has no part to play. A forum is what you use to engage your customers, it is not what you sell.
Dan B
5th February 2012, 03:47 PM
Look at this. As usual everything is poisoned.
Drama much?
Drama much?
Cunt
5th February 2012, 04:13 PM
I think providing a voice for people who don't have one is a good thing to do.
There's no question that I agree with and support this idea.
FedUpWithFaith suggested a goal of reducing exclusion rather than increasing inclusion. I like the rephrasing. Think it better describes what we are really doing and would like you to think about it, too.
But this:
I know that a communication company tried to pitch a website with that kind of goal to a not-for-profit group and nearly got it through (along with maintenance costs upward of 50k/year)
Some of the really good things we would all do anyway can actually pay money.
I have trouble connecting with the opening statement .. partly because there's a heap of blank space in between the two that should be filled in, and partly because I'd like to know how making communication accessible to all can be profitable in a financial sense, without somehow infringing on integrity and without becoming exploited.
That's a tall order, and the example I am thinking of missed the mark. My point was that doing really good things can pay money. I will add ethically.
What happened was that someone made a website with communication tools and offered it to a not-for-profit group who had need of better inter-group communication.
It turned out the upkeep of the site would have been higher than the group could afford for that purpose, but if the bill had come in lower, it might have worked.
If I am not explaining it well, I will have another go, but I need to know what you don't get.
People make money doing good all the time. If you were in control of what good you do AND what benefit you take, my guess is that you would have to worry a lot less about greed and abuse.
Someone .. you or FUWF .. mentioned greed, and seemed to think it was a good thing, a way to get people to become involved. I don't think greed is a good motive for helping others .. in fact the two are at odds, in my view. I know that an organization which allows some new employees to over-claim their hours (a common greed tactic) and uses this 'greed index' to decide who to promote.
And how is it that we got YOU to give a shit about this website?
Go back to the opening statement of your post for a good part of how I give a shit about this website. ;)
I was asking that other poster, but maybe digging into this question for everyone would yield some interesting ways to develop.
----------------
Someone .. you or FUWF .. mentioned greed
It wasn't me.
- greed.
----------------
Edit: Having noted FedUpWithFaith's denial of having expressed such a sentiment, which he voiced while I was still writing this one, I had a look around and found no evidence that either he or Cunt said anything of the sort. The part of this post above the word "edit" is therefore basically irrelevant to the topic we are discussing.
----------------
I can't even disagree with them, because there's nothing coherent to disagree with it.I did toss up something specific as a business idea to attach here. Few noticed.
My idea was not shared at first, so I didn't have good perspective on it. After talking it through out loud, it sounded bad. It happens.
I am willing to be wrong, even a bunch of times. If you aren't, I'm sorry for your loss.
----------------
devogue, what exactly does your flowery language mean? Can you be clear?
----------------
Something to chew on for any who think greed/self interest cannot be engaged for an overall benefit to humans...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?hl=en&v=tUAepQYyMY4&gl=US
There's no question that I agree with and support this idea.
FedUpWithFaith suggested a goal of reducing exclusion rather than increasing inclusion. I like the rephrasing. Think it better describes what we are really doing and would like you to think about it, too.
But this:
I know that a communication company tried to pitch a website with that kind of goal to a not-for-profit group and nearly got it through (along with maintenance costs upward of 50k/year)
Some of the really good things we would all do anyway can actually pay money.
I have trouble connecting with the opening statement .. partly because there's a heap of blank space in between the two that should be filled in, and partly because I'd like to know how making communication accessible to all can be profitable in a financial sense, without somehow infringing on integrity and without becoming exploited.
That's a tall order, and the example I am thinking of missed the mark. My point was that doing really good things can pay money. I will add ethically.
What happened was that someone made a website with communication tools and offered it to a not-for-profit group who had need of better inter-group communication.
It turned out the upkeep of the site would have been higher than the group could afford for that purpose, but if the bill had come in lower, it might have worked.
If I am not explaining it well, I will have another go, but I need to know what you don't get.
People make money doing good all the time. If you were in control of what good you do AND what benefit you take, my guess is that you would have to worry a lot less about greed and abuse.
Someone .. you or FUWF .. mentioned greed, and seemed to think it was a good thing, a way to get people to become involved. I don't think greed is a good motive for helping others .. in fact the two are at odds, in my view. I know that an organization which allows some new employees to over-claim their hours (a common greed tactic) and uses this 'greed index' to decide who to promote.
And how is it that we got YOU to give a shit about this website?
Go back to the opening statement of your post for a good part of how I give a shit about this website. ;)
I was asking that other poster, but maybe digging into this question for everyone would yield some interesting ways to develop.
----------------
Someone .. you or FUWF .. mentioned greed
It wasn't me.
- greed.
----------------
Edit: Having noted FedUpWithFaith's denial of having expressed such a sentiment, which he voiced while I was still writing this one, I had a look around and found no evidence that either he or Cunt said anything of the sort. The part of this post above the word "edit" is therefore basically irrelevant to the topic we are discussing.
----------------
I can't even disagree with them, because there's nothing coherent to disagree with it.I did toss up something specific as a business idea to attach here. Few noticed.
My idea was not shared at first, so I didn't have good perspective on it. After talking it through out loud, it sounded bad. It happens.
I am willing to be wrong, even a bunch of times. If you aren't, I'm sorry for your loss.
----------------
devogue, what exactly does your flowery language mean? Can you be clear?
----------------
Something to chew on for any who think greed/self interest cannot be engaged for an overall benefit to humans...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?hl=en&v=tUAepQYyMY4&gl=US
FedUpWithFaith
5th February 2012, 04:38 PM
As far as I'm concerned that's how this stuff works. That's why they call it spitballing.
That's not how selling an idea works. It's how forming one works.
The fact that they have no idea at all as to the direction they want to take this means everything.
...
FUWF, meanwhile, is throwing half-thoughts of non-ideas around like a monkey with dirrohea and expecting us to jump in his patch-work dinghy all grins and nods.
Duh.
I think you have limited reading comprehension or are just very lazy. You don't seem to understanding what spitballing is or that it can be fun. We're not selling an idea because we don't have one. Cunt discarded his. I've proposed some seeds or catalysts that might help us all noodle something. People like you just like to poo-poo everything. You're handle is apropos.
There is a general understanding by a significant fraction of the membership that a forum needs a driver to grow. That's the main concept I've been trying to "sell". It doesn't have to be commercial nor have I said that's the best option. That's for the forum to decide after its comes up with ideas.
Since you are apparently uncreative and devoid of ideas yourself, perhaps you should come back after we have some Grumpy. Then you can enjoy shooting them all down...
Cunt supposedly had a wonderful idea, then realised it was a shit idea, without ever telling anyone just what it was. Well thought out, bro. Nice to see you put so much careful planning in to forming it.
Yeah, stomp on Cunt Grumpy. He was very honest and upfront that he's not very knowledgeable about this sort of thing and that his idea might be shit. And it was shit. He Skyped me from Canada and explained it in his roundabout way (sort of endearing to me, maybe not you). It's a terrible idea from about 30 different angles and I also think it would poison the forum if it could work (there is a variant of this idea, not quite the one that Cunt intended or knew about, that already exists and is commericalized but it only succeeds by leveraging phoniness and mendacity). I'd tell you what the idea was but I don't want to expose Cunt to unneccary ridicule from the likes of you. He probably won't care - but that's his decision if he wants to disclose it.
This is a forum. The only way to make this commercially successful is to come up with a service or product that people actually want (or create a demand, and then create a product to satisfy it), and slap a forum at the tail end.
Wrong, there are other commercial mechanisms but not interested in lots of meta-analysis. Obviously, if Cunt did have a great idea he wanted to leverage for the forum he could set up a separate biz and it could send all it's profits here - completely arms length. If there were organic reasons for it to fit tightly or loosely with the forum, creative minds could make it work. Yours is not one of those minds though.
That's not how selling an idea works. It's how forming one works.
The fact that they have no idea at all as to the direction they want to take this means everything.
...
FUWF, meanwhile, is throwing half-thoughts of non-ideas around like a monkey with dirrohea and expecting us to jump in his patch-work dinghy all grins and nods.
Duh.
I think you have limited reading comprehension or are just very lazy. You don't seem to understanding what spitballing is or that it can be fun. We're not selling an idea because we don't have one. Cunt discarded his. I've proposed some seeds or catalysts that might help us all noodle something. People like you just like to poo-poo everything. You're handle is apropos.
There is a general understanding by a significant fraction of the membership that a forum needs a driver to grow. That's the main concept I've been trying to "sell". It doesn't have to be commercial nor have I said that's the best option. That's for the forum to decide after its comes up with ideas.
Since you are apparently uncreative and devoid of ideas yourself, perhaps you should come back after we have some Grumpy. Then you can enjoy shooting them all down...
Cunt supposedly had a wonderful idea, then realised it was a shit idea, without ever telling anyone just what it was. Well thought out, bro. Nice to see you put so much careful planning in to forming it.
Yeah, stomp on Cunt Grumpy. He was very honest and upfront that he's not very knowledgeable about this sort of thing and that his idea might be shit. And it was shit. He Skyped me from Canada and explained it in his roundabout way (sort of endearing to me, maybe not you). It's a terrible idea from about 30 different angles and I also think it would poison the forum if it could work (there is a variant of this idea, not quite the one that Cunt intended or knew about, that already exists and is commericalized but it only succeeds by leveraging phoniness and mendacity). I'd tell you what the idea was but I don't want to expose Cunt to unneccary ridicule from the likes of you. He probably won't care - but that's his decision if he wants to disclose it.
This is a forum. The only way to make this commercially successful is to come up with a service or product that people actually want (or create a demand, and then create a product to satisfy it), and slap a forum at the tail end.
Wrong, there are other commercial mechanisms but not interested in lots of meta-analysis. Obviously, if Cunt did have a great idea he wanted to leverage for the forum he could set up a separate biz and it could send all it's profits here - completely arms length. If there were organic reasons for it to fit tightly or loosely with the forum, creative minds could make it work. Yours is not one of those minds though.
Cunt
5th February 2012, 05:11 PM
If Grumps has value in being super-critical of ideas, he has not applied it very robustly to the idea I DID put forward here.
Maybe it's more satisfying to slash at fog.
Maybe it's more satisfying to slash at fog.
oblivion
5th February 2012, 05:51 PM
If Grumps has value in being super-critical of ideas, he has not applied it very robustly to the idea I DID put forward here.
Maybe it's more satisfying to slash at fog.
are you talking about the amazon affiliates idea? Something else?
Maybe it's more satisfying to slash at fog.
are you talking about the amazon affiliates idea? Something else?
borealis
5th February 2012, 05:52 PM
Every massive forum (reddit) or user content driven site (cheesburger) I've ever seen goes the routine path of selling ads and sponsored links to make money. Plus they sell logoed crap.
oblivion
5th February 2012, 06:04 PM
yep. On a small site, the potential revenue stream is kinda meh. And visiting an ad-ridden small site with relatively slow generation of content quickly becomes annoying.
logoed crap on the other hand is sometimes a pretty good idea.
can you imagine the revenue a goonsay coffee mug or tshirt would draw at TR? :grin:
logoed crap on the other hand is sometimes a pretty good idea.
can you imagine the revenue a goonsay coffee mug or tshirt would draw at TR? :grin:
borealis
5th February 2012, 06:55 PM
Ha!
Shizzle would sue you all with acid raping lawyers. :omgwtf:
Shizzle would sue you all with acid raping lawyers. :omgwtf:
oblivion
5th February 2012, 07:03 PM
Ha!
Shizzle would sue you all with acid raping lawyers. :omgwtf:
a $36 crack team of acid raping lawyers.
Shizzle would sue you all with acid raping lawyers. :omgwtf:
a $36 crack team of acid raping lawyers.
borealis
5th February 2012, 07:05 PM
Ha!
Shizzle would sue you all with acid raping lawyers. :omgwtf:
a $36 crack team of acid raping lawyers.
a $36 crack team of acid raping lawyers on crack.
Shizzle would sue you all with acid raping lawyers. :omgwtf:
a $36 crack team of acid raping lawyers.
a $36 crack team of acid raping lawyers on crack.
borealis
5th February 2012, 07:07 PM
I'd be tempted to buy a TR logoed something with the SteveF memescape on it. But then Steve would become a celebrity and want all the huge profits.
Cunt
5th February 2012, 07:26 PM
If Grumps has value in being super-critical of ideas, he has not applied it very robustly to the idea I DID put forward here.
Maybe it's more satisfying to slash at fog.
are you talking about the amazon affiliates idea? Something else?
Ya. It might be stupid (that's happened to me before). If he would criticize it, and it survived that criticism, I would think better of it.
But he IS fucking grumpy.
Maybe it's more satisfying to slash at fog.
are you talking about the amazon affiliates idea? Something else?
Ya. It might be stupid (that's happened to me before). If he would criticize it, and it survived that criticism, I would think better of it.
But he IS fucking grumpy.
Jerome
5th February 2012, 09:43 PM
I like TR a ton, I encourage members here to try it and see if they like it.
:]:]:]
http://talkrational.org/
:]:]:]
http://talkrational.org/
FedUpWithFaith
5th February 2012, 09:54 PM
I like TR a ton, I encourage members here to try it and see if they like it.
:]:]:]
http://talkrational.org/
It was one of the few forums I joined I never even got excited about enough even to quit or get kicked off. :rofl:
That was over a year ago - maybe 2. Everyone was so polite and humorless. It seemed sterile. Has that changed?
:]:]:]
http://talkrational.org/
It was one of the few forums I joined I never even got excited about enough even to quit or get kicked off. :rofl:
That was over a year ago - maybe 2. Everyone was so polite and humorless. It seemed sterile. Has that changed?
Cunt
5th February 2012, 10:06 PM
yep. On a small site, the potential revenue stream is kinda meh. And visiting an ad-ridden small site with relatively slow generation of content quickly becomes annoying.
logoed crap on the other hand is sometimes a pretty good idea.
can you imagine the revenue a goonsay coffee mug or tshirt would draw at TR? :grin:
I would be glad to contribute images to MindRomp. I would be even happier if they could somehow contribute to the rent. I (like many?) don't have much money to toss around, but I can produce everything from metalwork to graphics and would be glad to toss in something from my time.
Back at RDF, I sponsored a couple of contests. Don't remember what they were, but the prize was 'Infidel', a book by a hot chick with an unusual cunt. Oh, and there are several better reasons that she is a hero of mine.
I would be willing to do the same here, but I don't have money now. If someone would handle shipment to the winner, however, I could put something 'MindRomp' together (steel belt buckle?) and we could have a contest of some kind.
I taught some people how to make a belt buckle, in order to share some manufacturing skills with them (mostly women) but this will give you an idea of the designs available...
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee174/Darren8306/Untitled-1-3.jpg
logoed crap on the other hand is sometimes a pretty good idea.
can you imagine the revenue a goonsay coffee mug or tshirt would draw at TR? :grin:
I would be glad to contribute images to MindRomp. I would be even happier if they could somehow contribute to the rent. I (like many?) don't have much money to toss around, but I can produce everything from metalwork to graphics and would be glad to toss in something from my time.
Back at RDF, I sponsored a couple of contests. Don't remember what they were, but the prize was 'Infidel', a book by a hot chick with an unusual cunt. Oh, and there are several better reasons that she is a hero of mine.
I would be willing to do the same here, but I don't have money now. If someone would handle shipment to the winner, however, I could put something 'MindRomp' together (steel belt buckle?) and we could have a contest of some kind.
I taught some people how to make a belt buckle, in order to share some manufacturing skills with them (mostly women) but this will give you an idea of the designs available...
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee174/Darren8306/Untitled-1-3.jpg
Jerome
5th February 2012, 10:23 PM
Has that changed?
I don't know from your perception, I like it..
I don't know from your perception, I like it..
Jerome
5th February 2012, 10:25 PM
Can we please nix the idea of making money, it is unclean.
FedUpWithFaith
5th February 2012, 10:37 PM
I want a dollar every time I post or I quit. I also want a word count bonus at the end of the year - each fiscal year that is. I vote the fiscal year end in June. Let's vote NOW!
Jerome
5th February 2012, 11:03 PM
Vote Yes
Cunt
5th February 2012, 11:04 PM
Can we please nix the idea of making money, it is unclean.
I'm going to have to stay dirty for my shameful mistress (a.k.a. - 'Mia Mortgage')
I'm going to have to stay dirty for my shameful mistress (a.k.a. - 'Mia Mortgage')
Jerome
5th February 2012, 11:08 PM
it has become tedious
Adenosine
5th February 2012, 11:16 PM
I want a dollar every time I post or I quit. I also want a word count bonus at the end of the year - each fiscal year that is. I vote the fiscal year end in June. Let's vote NOW!
Zimbabwean dollars okay?
Zimbabwean dollars okay?
Cunt
5th February 2012, 11:16 PM
it has become tedious
True, but just a few years to go and I can be clean again!
True, but just a few years to go and I can be clean again!
FedUpWithFaith
5th February 2012, 11:17 PM
Can we please nix the idea of making money, it is unclean.
I'm going to have to stay dirty for my shameful mistress (a.k.a. - 'Mia Mortgage')
Shit Cunt, you're starting to sound like the MindRomp panhandler.
http://kn-testimonials.s3.amazonaws.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/panhandler.jpg
I'm going to have to stay dirty for my shameful mistress (a.k.a. - 'Mia Mortgage')
Shit Cunt, you're starting to sound like the MindRomp panhandler.
http://kn-testimonials.s3.amazonaws.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/panhandler.jpg
FedUpWithFaith
5th February 2012, 11:24 PM
http://gulfofmexicooilspillblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/beggars_england_where_hard_work_is_punished-s391x400-88872.jpghttps://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRvXckrxRii3ec0anHP0baJKjP-B5sik6hSem_zOo-bSNBeX0xWVAhttps://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTE-dvYLU2d0I-qsQ5EsHT7sR5Hbm2f4KSnPHBCh6S_uHdP_RRmIQ
Cunt
5th February 2012, 11:49 PM
Panhandling isn't the only clean way to make money, FedUpWithFaith
Hermit
6th February 2012, 01:15 AM
If Grumps has value in being super-critical of ideas, he has not applied it very robustly to the idea I DID put forward here.
Maybe it's more satisfying to slash at fog.
are you talking about the amazon affiliates idea? Something else?
Ya. It might be stupid (that's happened to me before). If he would criticize it, and it survived that criticism, I would think better of it.
But he IS fucking grumpy.
He did poopoo the Amazon idea already. Look at his "Piper-Tune" graphic. I like the Amazon idea, for unlike Grumps, I don't think there are any strings attached. It certainly won't cover server costs on its own, but it is a useful contribution to the funding.
Maybe it's more satisfying to slash at fog.
are you talking about the amazon affiliates idea? Something else?
Ya. It might be stupid (that's happened to me before). If he would criticize it, and it survived that criticism, I would think better of it.
But he IS fucking grumpy.
He did poopoo the Amazon idea already. Look at his "Piper-Tune" graphic. I like the Amazon idea, for unlike Grumps, I don't think there are any strings attached. It certainly won't cover server costs on its own, but it is a useful contribution to the funding.
Hermit
6th February 2012, 01:17 AM
I like TR a ton, I encourage members here to try it and see if they like it.
:]:]:]
http://talkrational.org/I registered there in May 2009. Although I liked the way it is run, I didn't take to it. Too much chaff for my liking. By May the next year I had basically disengaged, and just now was the first time I logged on since August 2010.
The Freethought forum is somewhat similar to Talk Rational, except the noise to signal ratio is even worse, so I disengaged from that as well.
:]:]:]
http://talkrational.org/I registered there in May 2009. Although I liked the way it is run, I didn't take to it. Too much chaff for my liking. By May the next year I had basically disengaged, and just now was the first time I logged on since August 2010.
The Freethought forum is somewhat similar to Talk Rational, except the noise to signal ratio is even worse, so I disengaged from that as well.
Cunt
6th February 2012, 01:44 AM
Thanks, Seraph, I didn't see that.
charlou
6th February 2012, 01:49 AM
I have bills to pay too .. as does everyone on this forum. How many see this forum as a means to pay their bills .. or as a place to connect and discuss? I'm thinking for most, it's most likely the latter.
amused
6th February 2012, 02:03 AM
I thought the point of these meta discussions was to come up with a lightning rod similar to the function that the Dawkins personality served for RDF, but without a personality.
Jerome
6th February 2012, 02:04 AM
I thought the point of these meta discussions was to come up with a lightning rod similar to the function that the Dawkins personality served for RDF, but without a personality.
Which Rod would you prefer?
Which Rod would you prefer?
amused
6th February 2012, 02:09 AM
I thought the point of these meta discussions was to come up with a lightning rod similar to the function that the Dawkins personality served for RDF, but without a personality.
Which Rod would you prefer?
A big one!
http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/demotivational-posters-lightning-rod.jpg
Which Rod would you prefer?
A big one!
http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/demotivational-posters-lightning-rod.jpg
Cunt
6th February 2012, 02:12 AM
I don't see it as a place to make my living. I do, however, think there are jobs to be done here. I would like MindRomp to be able to pay for those jobs.
If MindRomp was to offer to pay for a large data-entry job, would you feel funny taking the money to do it? If so, why?
I also think that there could be the possibility of selling things. For example, I have purchased the writing of a couple of folks on forums over the years. I treasure them. Why shouldn't I, when I like the way an author writes?
It was awfully close to paying someone for posting, but nothing bad happened.
What about all of us pitching in and purchase a heap of design work? Should such work be limited to people outside the MR community?
If MindRomp was to offer to pay for a large data-entry job, would you feel funny taking the money to do it? If so, why?
I also think that there could be the possibility of selling things. For example, I have purchased the writing of a couple of folks on forums over the years. I treasure them. Why shouldn't I, when I like the way an author writes?
It was awfully close to paying someone for posting, but nothing bad happened.
What about all of us pitching in and purchase a heap of design work? Should such work be limited to people outside the MR community?
Cunt
6th February 2012, 02:13 AM
I thought the point of these meta discussions was to come up with a lightning rod similar to the function that the Dawkins personality served for RDF, but without a personality.
Great idea. Let's draw it!
Great idea. Let's draw it!
charlou
6th February 2012, 02:24 AM
To me a discussion forum is just that. Perhaps a bit narrow minded re commercial possibilities .. but on those possibilities I want to know details. I can't consider or support ideas I have no knowledge about.
Buying a persons art or writing is a private exchange between the two parties .. While the exchange may take place as a result of the two parties coming together on the forum, the transaction is separate to the forum. Currently.
Are you proposing the forum become an agency for artists and writers, etc, to promote and sell their work? That's an intriguing idea ... Is it new?
Buying a persons art or writing is a private exchange between the two parties .. While the exchange may take place as a result of the two parties coming together on the forum, the transaction is separate to the forum. Currently.
Are you proposing the forum become an agency for artists and writers, etc, to promote and sell their work? That's an intriguing idea ... Is it new?
FedUpWithFaith
6th February 2012, 02:41 AM
My eldest son is a fabulous artist. Would love this idea. We had an idea for a new type of art website and business/non-profit to help new or struggling artists. I doubt you'd want it as part of this forum Eloise but let me tell everybody in case it can catalyze better ideas.
Many companies buy art to display. It's usually shitty, overpriced, and unoriginal. They pay tons of money for copies and prints and it sits there for years. Our idea was to sponsor rotating galleries at major businesses. You'd rent art on a rotating basis for little more than a typical big company spends anyway. People could buy the art from your corporate display gallery. So the artists have several venues to be seen, get their art bought, and get recognized. The big biz wins because they get great art and can get great publicity while they do good. A nice website would be needed for the companies to order their rotating collections and for the artists to get promoted. The website would get a cut of the transactions.
BTW: I still really love to do this idea but have been swamped. If anybody is interested in doing this give me a shout. I feel it could be a big success and had one of the biggest companies in MD interested in it. I could probably get all the funding needed as well as first customers.
Many companies buy art to display. It's usually shitty, overpriced, and unoriginal. They pay tons of money for copies and prints and it sits there for years. Our idea was to sponsor rotating galleries at major businesses. You'd rent art on a rotating basis for little more than a typical big company spends anyway. People could buy the art from your corporate display gallery. So the artists have several venues to be seen, get their art bought, and get recognized. The big biz wins because they get great art and can get great publicity while they do good. A nice website would be needed for the companies to order their rotating collections and for the artists to get promoted. The website would get a cut of the transactions.
BTW: I still really love to do this idea but have been swamped. If anybody is interested in doing this give me a shout. I feel it could be a big success and had one of the biggest companies in MD interested in it. I could probably get all the funding needed as well as first customers.
Cunt
6th February 2012, 02:42 AM
I just did it, don't know if it is new.
Here is one idea I had...
There is a company doing micro-loans to impoverished women in the third world (http://www.accion.org/page.aspx?pid=1876). Actually, there are several and this is not the one I first read about.
Anyway, they have an organization which handles the money (and likely earns a bit itself - in a not-for-profit way) and they identify which women can benefit from microloans. Then the woman pays the loan back, at very low interest compared to her other options.
Anyway, I would like to set something up where such a loan is started here, lets say to you, Elouise. Lets say that you, in third-world Australia, receive a loan to start your wrought-iron gate business. You get your materials, metal and gas with the 500$ we toss in (playing 'pass the hat') and get started. The way you pay it back is a bit counter-intuitive. With the others, you pay it back to them, but with this one, you have to pay it forward. Find someone who fits the criteria for such a loan, carry it out, and report on your completion. She does the same. Etc.
We usually end up with a membership well-advised of world events. My guess is that the membership could direct where those initial microloans could do the most good.
After your loan was completed, you report back to us on your experience. It wouldn't have to be huge, but I think many would like to know about what happened. After your 'apprentice' completed her loan, she would add to the stories.
Someone earlier said that they wouldn't give to strangers on the internet. If you, Seraph and Adenosine came up and said you needed to raise some money for a secret charity project, I would pitch in. I think you would find that others would, too. Imagine how sharply participation might improve with full disclosure.
Here is one idea I had...
There is a company doing micro-loans to impoverished women in the third world (http://www.accion.org/page.aspx?pid=1876). Actually, there are several and this is not the one I first read about.
Anyway, they have an organization which handles the money (and likely earns a bit itself - in a not-for-profit way) and they identify which women can benefit from microloans. Then the woman pays the loan back, at very low interest compared to her other options.
Anyway, I would like to set something up where such a loan is started here, lets say to you, Elouise. Lets say that you, in third-world Australia, receive a loan to start your wrought-iron gate business. You get your materials, metal and gas with the 500$ we toss in (playing 'pass the hat') and get started. The way you pay it back is a bit counter-intuitive. With the others, you pay it back to them, but with this one, you have to pay it forward. Find someone who fits the criteria for such a loan, carry it out, and report on your completion. She does the same. Etc.
We usually end up with a membership well-advised of world events. My guess is that the membership could direct where those initial microloans could do the most good.
After your loan was completed, you report back to us on your experience. It wouldn't have to be huge, but I think many would like to know about what happened. After your 'apprentice' completed her loan, she would add to the stories.
Someone earlier said that they wouldn't give to strangers on the internet. If you, Seraph and Adenosine came up and said you needed to raise some money for a secret charity project, I would pitch in. I think you would find that others would, too. Imagine how sharply participation might improve with full disclosure.
Cunt
6th February 2012, 02:43 AM
that was to Elouise
Cunt
6th February 2012, 02:46 AM
Are you proposing the forum become an agency for artists and writers, etc, to promote and sell their work? That's an intriguing idea ... Is it new?
I suggested something like that early on, which was shot down.
It was that someone could donate, and stipulate that a certain percentage went to favourite posters. It could be anonymous, but around payout time, cheques would be sent to the appropriate posters (whoever FedUpWithFaith designated would get his cheque, for instance, be it a charity, himself or MindRomp)
The idea may have been shit as it was, but could something be chopped off it to make it better? I don't believe that adding a bit of modest financial reward to posters would foul the goals of MindRomp.
I suggested something like that early on, which was shot down.
It was that someone could donate, and stipulate that a certain percentage went to favourite posters. It could be anonymous, but around payout time, cheques would be sent to the appropriate posters (whoever FedUpWithFaith designated would get his cheque, for instance, be it a charity, himself or MindRomp)
The idea may have been shit as it was, but could something be chopped off it to make it better? I don't believe that adding a bit of modest financial reward to posters would foul the goals of MindRomp.
FedUpWithFaith
6th February 2012, 02:49 AM
The idea may have been shit as it was, but could something be chopped off it to make it better? I don't believe that adding a bit of modest financial reward to posters would foul the goals of MindRomp.
Disagree
Disagree
FedUpWithFaith
6th February 2012, 02:51 AM
^^^But subsections of the forum, perhaps containing YT videos we produce that go viral and garner Google Adsence $$$ (like my sisters channel) could "reward" contributors" for such efforts. it could be like a prize for best videos etc.
Sme with podcasts or blogs that go viral around the web from here that can be monetized.
Sme with podcasts or blogs that go viral around the web from here that can be monetized.
Cunt
6th February 2012, 02:52 AM
The idea may have been shit as it was, but could something be chopped off it to make it better? I don't believe that adding a bit of modest financial reward to posters would foul the goals of MindRomp.
Disagree
Well that's a start...what is it that would so badly be bent? I think the money would be awfully small...
Disagree
Well that's a start...what is it that would so badly be bent? I think the money would be awfully small...
FedUpWithFaith
6th February 2012, 02:55 AM
The idea may have been shit as it was, but could something be chopped off it to make it better? I don't believe that adding a bit of modest financial reward to posters would foul the goals of MindRomp.
Disagree
Well that's a start...what is it that would so badly be bent? I think the money would be awfully small...
I think it would distort forum posts and culture too much if we paid people for regular posting. But stuff like I said above that we set apart for potential viral exposure to the wider web could be treated differently without hurting our culture too much IMO.
Disagree
Well that's a start...what is it that would so badly be bent? I think the money would be awfully small...
I think it would distort forum posts and culture too much if we paid people for regular posting. But stuff like I said above that we set apart for potential viral exposure to the wider web could be treated differently without hurting our culture too much IMO.
Jerome
6th February 2012, 03:15 AM
Buying a persons art or writing is a private exchange between the two parties .. While the exchange may take place as a result of the two parties coming together on the forum, the transaction is separate to the forum. Currently.
Without government the internets would not exist, therefore they need a cut.
Without government the internets would not exist, therefore they need a cut.
Grumps
6th February 2012, 03:51 AM
Are you proposing the forum become an agency for artists and writers, etc, to promote and sell their work? That's an intriguing idea ... Is it new?
I suggested something like that early on, which was shot down.
It was that someone could donate, and stipulate that a certain percentage went to favourite posters. It could be anonymous, but around payout time, cheques would be sent to the appropriate posters (whoever FedUpWithFaith designated would get his cheque, for instance, be it a charity, himself or MindRomp)
The idea may have been shit as it was, but could something be chopped off it to make it better? I don't believe that adding a bit of modest financial reward to posters would foul the goals of MindRomp.
Your idea is no good simply because there are free alternatives with a shitload of established members already.
You would need a substantial pull to override this - such as involvement from industry members like art dealers, someone with connections to a publication, already established authors, and so on.
But, and this is important, you would also have to restructure the forum and create a hierarchy in order for this to function. You will need people with management skills to delegate tasks and make prompt decisions when the staff is at a standstill.
You would also need to completely restructure the rules. You would have to 'outlaw' revealing personally identifying information, have rules about theft and reproductions, need to manage flame wars and other things.
You would also need a seperate display - a showcase website - for people to browse or peruse through the work without having to deal with topics and posts and shitty opinions by even shittier people.
You need to give people control over how their work is displayed, and have full time staff ready to fix bungles and tech holes. You have to manage copyright (where I said earlier, you tell people you have the right to reproduce any submitted photos etc. is important) and intellectual property rights.
Also: Seraph, I didn't "poopoo" the amazon Idea. The image wasn't mine (I haven't posted a single image in this thread). I don't think I ever mentioned the Amazon idea, not directly or indirectly. All I've said is that the ideas aren't well thought out - at least not as presented.
Which isn't what should be happening - if you have a commercial idea for the forum, then expand. Don't have a one sentence explanation as that tells everybody nothing about the idea.
I suggested something like that early on, which was shot down.
It was that someone could donate, and stipulate that a certain percentage went to favourite posters. It could be anonymous, but around payout time, cheques would be sent to the appropriate posters (whoever FedUpWithFaith designated would get his cheque, for instance, be it a charity, himself or MindRomp)
The idea may have been shit as it was, but could something be chopped off it to make it better? I don't believe that adding a bit of modest financial reward to posters would foul the goals of MindRomp.
Your idea is no good simply because there are free alternatives with a shitload of established members already.
You would need a substantial pull to override this - such as involvement from industry members like art dealers, someone with connections to a publication, already established authors, and so on.
But, and this is important, you would also have to restructure the forum and create a hierarchy in order for this to function. You will need people with management skills to delegate tasks and make prompt decisions when the staff is at a standstill.
You would also need to completely restructure the rules. You would have to 'outlaw' revealing personally identifying information, have rules about theft and reproductions, need to manage flame wars and other things.
You would also need a seperate display - a showcase website - for people to browse or peruse through the work without having to deal with topics and posts and shitty opinions by even shittier people.
You need to give people control over how their work is displayed, and have full time staff ready to fix bungles and tech holes. You have to manage copyright (where I said earlier, you tell people you have the right to reproduce any submitted photos etc. is important) and intellectual property rights.
Also: Seraph, I didn't "poopoo" the amazon Idea. The image wasn't mine (I haven't posted a single image in this thread). I don't think I ever mentioned the Amazon idea, not directly or indirectly. All I've said is that the ideas aren't well thought out - at least not as presented.
Which isn't what should be happening - if you have a commercial idea for the forum, then expand. Don't have a one sentence explanation as that tells everybody nothing about the idea.
Cunt
6th February 2012, 04:01 AM
The idea may have been shit as it was, but could something be chopped off it to make it better? I don't believe that adding a bit of modest financial reward to posters would foul the goals of MindRomp.
Disagree
Well that's a start...what is it that would so badly be bent? I think the money would be awfully small...
I think it would distort forum posts and culture too much if we paid people for regular posting. But stuff like I said above that we set apart for potential viral exposure to the wider web could be treated differently without hurting our culture too much IMO.
So my idea (the core was to try to reward/encourage authors we like to read) could work, just in an attached (commercial?) blog then...see, it could still be alive in a way...just not at all in the posts...for that matter, we might just naturally encourage some bits of writing to be shared that other way...
I would also like to see a way for MindRomp to gain from it, though. My idea of growing into a bunker/server farm wirelessly connected to the world and able to defend MindRomp and its' principles against any and all governments or other opposition. Well, it might be a bit costly. Could take a few years to save up (if there is enough agreement)
Disagree
Well that's a start...what is it that would so badly be bent? I think the money would be awfully small...
I think it would distort forum posts and culture too much if we paid people for regular posting. But stuff like I said above that we set apart for potential viral exposure to the wider web could be treated differently without hurting our culture too much IMO.
So my idea (the core was to try to reward/encourage authors we like to read) could work, just in an attached (commercial?) blog then...see, it could still be alive in a way...just not at all in the posts...for that matter, we might just naturally encourage some bits of writing to be shared that other way...
I would also like to see a way for MindRomp to gain from it, though. My idea of growing into a bunker/server farm wirelessly connected to the world and able to defend MindRomp and its' principles against any and all governments or other opposition. Well, it might be a bit costly. Could take a few years to save up (if there is enough agreement)
Teshi
6th February 2012, 02:20 PM
Man, I know if I wanted to market art, a vBulletin message board would be my first choice for a platform!
borealis
6th February 2012, 02:38 PM
A lot of brick and mortar galleries have rental programs, including rotation options, which are used by companies that bother with original art. They often have online sites from which to order.
I'm not sure how you would deliver such a service from a world wide perspective. I think places like deviant art and etsy and individual artist's sites depend on one time sales to individuals or businesses.
I've a friend who tried online art sales, including having his website listed in a bunch of art friendly bigger sites. His work sells very well out of his studio and through shows. He made two sales in four years online.
I don't know about DA, but Etsy's a mess because so many of the 'shops' are junk resellers or completely mad people who sell butt prints or the equivalent.
I'm not sure how you would deliver such a service from a world wide perspective. I think places like deviant art and etsy and individual artist's sites depend on one time sales to individuals or businesses.
I've a friend who tried online art sales, including having his website listed in a bunch of art friendly bigger sites. His work sells very well out of his studio and through shows. He made two sales in four years online.
I don't know about DA, but Etsy's a mess because so many of the 'shops' are junk resellers or completely mad people who sell butt prints or the equivalent.
amused
6th February 2012, 02:44 PM
... or completely mad people who sell butt prints ...
We could corner this market!
We could corner this market!
borealis
6th February 2012, 03:25 PM
... or completely mad people who sell butt prints ...
We could corner this market!
Wouldn't we more likely be rounding it?
On topic, there are 183 million results for art sales communities online.
Searching best places to sell your art online led me to this article:
http://www.theabundantartist.com/15-ways-to-sell-your-art-online/
I briefly checked out Amazon and found their sorting tool does a very poor job of finding 'original paintings', even though that is a specific Amazon category. See here for what Amazon calls 'original paintings'. Some of them are, but a lot of them are not.
Amazon.com: paintings original: Arts, Crafts & Sewing
We could corner this market!
Wouldn't we more likely be rounding it?
On topic, there are 183 million results for art sales communities online.
Searching best places to sell your art online led me to this article:
http://www.theabundantartist.com/15-ways-to-sell-your-art-online/
I briefly checked out Amazon and found their sorting tool does a very poor job of finding 'original paintings', even though that is a specific Amazon category. See here for what Amazon calls 'original paintings'. Some of them are, but a lot of them are not.
Amazon.com: paintings original: Arts, Crafts & Sewing
Hermit
6th February 2012, 07:48 PM
Also: Seraph, I didn't "poopoo" the amazon Idea. The image wasn't mine (I haven't posted a single image in this thread). I don't think I ever mentioned the Amazon idea, not directly or indirectly. All I've said is that the ideas aren't well thought out - at least not as presented.
Sorry about that, Grumps. I should have double-checked. The post I remembered was actually Exi5tentialist's. This one (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?p=15181#post15181).
Sorry about that, Grumps. I should have double-checked. The post I remembered was actually Exi5tentialist's. This one (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?p=15181#post15181).
FedUpWithFaith
6th February 2012, 10:00 PM
A lot of brick and mortar galleries have rental programs, including rotation options, which are used by companies that bother with original art. They often have online sites from which to order.
I'm not sure how you would deliver such a service from a world wide perspective. I think places like deviant art and etsy and individual artist's sites depend on one time sales to individuals or businesses.
I've a friend who tried online art sales, including having his website listed in a bunch of art friendly bigger sites. His work sells very well out of his studio and through shows. He made two sales in four years online.
I don't know about DA, but Etsy's a mess because so many of the 'shops' are junk resellers or completely mad people who sell butt prints or the equivalent.
Would you mind sending me some refs to these rental galleries? The key is online promotion, not so much to buy/pick paintings, but help artists as more of a charity endeavor. it would have to be conducted on a hub basis, like a franchise. Local gallaries, art schools, and other institutions could claim territories supported by the website.
I'm not sure how you would deliver such a service from a world wide perspective. I think places like deviant art and etsy and individual artist's sites depend on one time sales to individuals or businesses.
I've a friend who tried online art sales, including having his website listed in a bunch of art friendly bigger sites. His work sells very well out of his studio and through shows. He made two sales in four years online.
I don't know about DA, but Etsy's a mess because so many of the 'shops' are junk resellers or completely mad people who sell butt prints or the equivalent.
Would you mind sending me some refs to these rental galleries? The key is online promotion, not so much to buy/pick paintings, but help artists as more of a charity endeavor. it would have to be conducted on a hub basis, like a franchise. Local gallaries, art schools, and other institutions could claim territories supported by the website.
FedUpWithFaith
6th February 2012, 10:03 PM
I have bills to pay too .. as does everyone on this forum. How many see this forum as a means to pay their bills .. or as a place to connect and discuss? I'm thinking for most, it's most likely the latter.
All I know if if i do get dividends from MR, I'm going to use them to purchase and traffic in Eastern European sex slaves.
All I know if if i do get dividends from MR, I'm going to use them to purchase and traffic in Eastern European sex slaves.
Exi5tentialist
6th February 2012, 10:19 PM
Sorry about that, Grumps. I should have double-checked. The post I remembered was actually Exi5tentialist's. This one (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?p=15181#post15181).
Apology accepted. For misattributing my side-splittingly funny lolcat attempt, I mean. I know you weren't apologising to me, but I'll accept it anyway - as in the Djokovic shirt-grabbing incident (http://video.dailytelegraph.com.au/2191282371/Girl-shocked-by-shirt-snatcher).
My point being - sorry, but anyone who gets an income from anyone cannot help being influenced by that income. That's not poopooing, it's a reasonable conjecture, based on past experience.
Content in MR will be subtly different with Amazon advertising than without.
Apology accepted. For misattributing my side-splittingly funny lolcat attempt, I mean. I know you weren't apologising to me, but I'll accept it anyway - as in the Djokovic shirt-grabbing incident (http://video.dailytelegraph.com.au/2191282371/Girl-shocked-by-shirt-snatcher).
My point being - sorry, but anyone who gets an income from anyone cannot help being influenced by that income. That's not poopooing, it's a reasonable conjecture, based on past experience.
Content in MR will be subtly different with Amazon advertising than without.
borealis
6th February 2012, 10:58 PM
Would you mind sending me some refs to these rental galleries? The key is online promotion, not so much to buy/pick paintings, but help artists as more of a charity endeavor. it would have to be conducted on a hub basis, like a franchise. Local gallaries, art schools, and other institutions could claim territories supported by the website.
Search page of Canadian galleries with rental options:
http://isearch.avg.com/search?cid={1BE8FD56-289E-4B31-BC2F-29F195E7B931}&mid=f355b361d280c55704ed37876d61429c-2617dd0639239d99f4439aee33a01c0dabafbe63&lang=us&ds=AVG&pr=fr&d=2011-12-10%2009:05:37&v=10.0.0.7&sap=dsp&q=art+rental+through+Canadian+galleries
Many of the larger galleries purchase artworks directly from artists and then rent the works.
AGNS:
http://www.artgalleryofnovascotia.ca/en/AGNS_Halifax/shop/artrentals/default.aspx
Others hold the works, promote them and rent them for the artists.
http://www.thebac.ca/get-inspired/artists/
Quite a few do both. I've no idea what the returns are for the artists who keep ownership, but the outright buying is pretty good.
Most keep an online gallery for viewing, rotating if it's a larger art bank, and willingly connect people who want to buy with artists.
I've not looked into it much myself because most of my work in the past couple decades has been church or residential kiln fired painted stained glass windows - not really suitable to being carted around.
Search page of Canadian galleries with rental options:
http://isearch.avg.com/search?cid={1BE8FD56-289E-4B31-BC2F-29F195E7B931}&mid=f355b361d280c55704ed37876d61429c-2617dd0639239d99f4439aee33a01c0dabafbe63&lang=us&ds=AVG&pr=fr&d=2011-12-10%2009:05:37&v=10.0.0.7&sap=dsp&q=art+rental+through+Canadian+galleries
Many of the larger galleries purchase artworks directly from artists and then rent the works.
AGNS:
http://www.artgalleryofnovascotia.ca/en/AGNS_Halifax/shop/artrentals/default.aspx
Others hold the works, promote them and rent them for the artists.
http://www.thebac.ca/get-inspired/artists/
Quite a few do both. I've no idea what the returns are for the artists who keep ownership, but the outright buying is pretty good.
Most keep an online gallery for viewing, rotating if it's a larger art bank, and willingly connect people who want to buy with artists.
I've not looked into it much myself because most of my work in the past couple decades has been church or residential kiln fired painted stained glass windows - not really suitable to being carted around.
borealis
6th February 2012, 11:33 PM
Would you mind sending me some refs to these rental galleries? The key is online promotion, not so much to buy/pick paintings, but help artists as more of a charity endeavor. it would have to be conducted on a hub basis, like a franchise. Local gallaries, art schools, and other institutions could claim territories supported by the website.
Addressing the rest of this post:
Since most art colleges/schools have their own websites and their own galleries, and most private galleries also have websites with online galleries, and in fact most larger unis have their own galleries and websites, I'm not sure why any of them would be much interested.
I suspect the only demographic that would be interested would be individual artists wishing to sell original works and wanting as many venues as they can find.
I would probably be interested in advertising my work online in a format where I could easily and cheaply upload images. I'd be willing to pay a per sale fee to the online gallery. perhaps even an annual fee as well.
Artists need different sales solutions depending what media they are using. Even digital works generally have to be printed using fairly expensive processes in order to have much value other than being pretty pictures. Art is still pretty much a physical commodity. Production costs can be high, so most artists don't maintain a large inventory. many work on commission as sales are made. Some artworks are easily shipped, others are almost impossible to package and ship due to size, weight or fragility.
But the biggest hurdle is how to make such a place stand out among the thousands of sites that do similar things, let alone the physical galleries that are abundant in every city and town.
Addressing the rest of this post:
Since most art colleges/schools have their own websites and their own galleries, and most private galleries also have websites with online galleries, and in fact most larger unis have their own galleries and websites, I'm not sure why any of them would be much interested.
I suspect the only demographic that would be interested would be individual artists wishing to sell original works and wanting as many venues as they can find.
I would probably be interested in advertising my work online in a format where I could easily and cheaply upload images. I'd be willing to pay a per sale fee to the online gallery. perhaps even an annual fee as well.
Artists need different sales solutions depending what media they are using. Even digital works generally have to be printed using fairly expensive processes in order to have much value other than being pretty pictures. Art is still pretty much a physical commodity. Production costs can be high, so most artists don't maintain a large inventory. many work on commission as sales are made. Some artworks are easily shipped, others are almost impossible to package and ship due to size, weight or fragility.
But the biggest hurdle is how to make such a place stand out among the thousands of sites that do similar things, let alone the physical galleries that are abundant in every city and town.
FedUpWithFaith
7th February 2012, 07:52 AM
Thanks Borealis!
Grumps
7th February 2012, 09:18 AM
But the biggest hurdle is how to make such a place stand out among the thousands of sites that do similar things, let alone the physical galleries that are abundant in every city and town.
And not to mention the websites that allow you to do it for free.
And not to mention the websites that allow you to do it for free.
Adenosine
7th February 2012, 09:45 AM
I have an idea that ties to the core values, is slightly commercial but mainly not-for-profit. It all comes back to Cunt wanting to give a voice to the disabled. I can see an organisation dedicated to providing internet access to those without, something like One Laptop Per Child (now one tablet per child) but for the disabled and socio-economically disadvantaged all over the world.
The idea isn't to have Mindromp forum as the main portal to the internet for them. Instead the forum would be one of several links on the actual portal. The real portal would have links to...freaking everything important. Government services, disabled services, other charities, lolcats, Wikipedia and Google.
The new organisation would support people starting on their internet journey with emphasis on everyone having a voice.
The catch would be the hardware. I don't know the demographic and I don't know the variety of needs.
The idea isn't to have Mindromp forum as the main portal to the internet for them. Instead the forum would be one of several links on the actual portal. The real portal would have links to...freaking everything important. Government services, disabled services, other charities, lolcats, Wikipedia and Google.
The new organisation would support people starting on their internet journey with emphasis on everyone having a voice.
The catch would be the hardware. I don't know the demographic and I don't know the variety of needs.
Linus
7th February 2012, 01:14 PM
How about we all send 50 Nigeria letters/month? We spread the legal risks and let the money go to MindRomp.org.
Cunt
7th February 2012, 04:07 PM
I have an idea that ties to the core values, is slightly commercial but mainly not-for-profit. It all comes back to Cunt wanting to give a voice to the disabled. I can see an organisation dedicated to providing internet access to those without, something like One Laptop Per Child (now one tablet per child) but for the disabled and socio-economically disadvantaged all over the world.
The idea isn't to have Mindromp forum as the main portal to the internet for them. Instead the forum would be one of several links on the actual portal. The real portal would have links to...freaking everything important. Government services, disabled services, other charities, lolcats, Wikipedia and Google.
The new organisation would support people starting on their internet journey with emphasis on everyone having a voice.
The catch would be the hardware. I don't know the demographic and I don't know the variety of needs.
I like this because it can 'sell' us to a large group without money having to be involved...
One bit of hardware which can flexibly adapt to many disabilities and help them reach communities and services on the internet is FedUpWithFaith. Another is Seraph. There are about a hundred more here. I wonder how many would be willing to help someone with disabilities to access services and information through their personal computers, in the name of 'MindRomp'? Could MindRomp host a wiki which has those most-often needed services sorted by country?
The idea isn't to have Mindromp forum as the main portal to the internet for them. Instead the forum would be one of several links on the actual portal. The real portal would have links to...freaking everything important. Government services, disabled services, other charities, lolcats, Wikipedia and Google.
The new organisation would support people starting on their internet journey with emphasis on everyone having a voice.
The catch would be the hardware. I don't know the demographic and I don't know the variety of needs.
I like this because it can 'sell' us to a large group without money having to be involved...
One bit of hardware which can flexibly adapt to many disabilities and help them reach communities and services on the internet is FedUpWithFaith. Another is Seraph. There are about a hundred more here. I wonder how many would be willing to help someone with disabilities to access services and information through their personal computers, in the name of 'MindRomp'? Could MindRomp host a wiki which has those most-often needed services sorted by country?
FedUpWithFaith
7th February 2012, 05:52 PM
One bit of hardware which can flexibly adapt to many disabilities and help them reach communities and services on the internet is FedUpWithFaith. Another is Seraph. There are about a hundred more here. I wonder how many would be willing to help someone with disabilities to access services and information through their personal computers, in the name of 'MindRomp'? Could MindRomp host a wiki which has those most-often needed services sorted by country?
Fuck 'em. Their disabilities are their own problem. Andrew Clunn convinced me of that at this very forum. Who says an old dog can't learn new tricks?
Fuck 'em. Their disabilities are their own problem. Andrew Clunn convinced me of that at this very forum. Who says an old dog can't learn new tricks?
Jerome
7th February 2012, 10:59 PM
Are you guys still on about making money??
FedUpWithFaith
7th February 2012, 11:41 PM
Are you guys still on about making money??
I was never into making money, per se. I just want to see this forum develop a membership-driving mission. If it involves making money that's OK with me as long as it does not conflict with the core ethos.
I was never into making money, per se. I just want to see this forum develop a membership-driving mission. If it involves making money that's OK with me as long as it does not conflict with the core ethos.
Jerome
8th February 2012, 12:03 AM
I am not on a mission.
What is the mission? Without this question answered it is futile to examine how to fulfill the mission.
What is the mission? Without this question answered it is futile to examine how to fulfill the mission.
Cunt
8th February 2012, 12:33 AM
What mission would engage and interest you, JEROME DA GNOME? Meals-on-wheels for retired prostitutes? (hmmm....?)
Jerome
8th February 2012, 01:06 AM
Meals-on-wheels for retired prostitutes?
:unsure:
:unsure:
Cunt
8th February 2012, 02:42 AM
Meals-on-wheels for retired prostitutes?
:unsure:
Everybody is a critic.
Allright YOU pick one then, fucker!
:unsure:
Everybody is a critic.
Allright YOU pick one then, fucker!
Jerome
8th February 2012, 02:46 AM
i would dig if we got together as a group and (no shit) we all thought about the same thing at the same time
wonder what would happen
wonder what would happen
Cunt
8th February 2012, 02:59 AM
Same thing as when people pray, I suppose. The stink of piety and the sound of no work getting done.
charlou
8th February 2012, 06:22 AM
I wonder how many would be willing to help someone with disabilities to access services and information through their personal computers, in the name of 'MindRomp'? Could MindRomp host a wiki which has those most-often needed services sorted by country?
I already have been doing this on a small voluntary level (help people access services and info online). I'm not interested in doing so in the name of MindRomp, but I would consider using MindRomp as an intermediary resource in the name of bringing access to services to people.
I already have been doing this on a small voluntary level (help people access services and info online). I'm not interested in doing so in the name of MindRomp, but I would consider using MindRomp as an intermediary resource in the name of bringing access to services to people.
charlou
8th February 2012, 06:36 AM
Meals-on-wheels for retired prostitutes?
:unsure:
It's okay .. I'm p sure meals on wheels don't discriminate on such grounds as it is. ;)
:unsure:
It's okay .. I'm p sure meals on wheels don't discriminate on such grounds as it is. ;)
Cunt
8th February 2012, 06:57 AM
Anyone know how to make a wiki? Disability information type?
ksen
8th February 2012, 06:44 PM
Well, it isn't really to do with Idea, but have this place where everyone can speak freely. Inclusion can't be achieved with just text. We would need several other ways of interacting (video, as one example). In order to include all the functionality I dream of, I would first want to be able to offer a fair wage to get the work done. I know there are volunteers and I know you work very hard for nothing aside from our thanks. I appreciate it. This is kind of aside from that, though.
The other thing is, we could look for the least included groups and work directly to include them. This again doesn't have so much to do with MR or Idea as it does our own personal goals and wishes.
yeah, that's what I meant by "accessible" -- non-text. talk/audio-chat, video-chat, youtube library, podcasts, etc. games/arcade, maybe.
OMG . . . you're going to go all Erwin on us . . . AREN'T YOU!! :staregonk:
The other thing is, we could look for the least included groups and work directly to include them. This again doesn't have so much to do with MR or Idea as it does our own personal goals and wishes.
yeah, that's what I meant by "accessible" -- non-text. talk/audio-chat, video-chat, youtube library, podcasts, etc. games/arcade, maybe.
OMG . . . you're going to go all Erwin on us . . . AREN'T YOU!! :staregonk:
ksen
8th February 2012, 07:03 PM
And how is it that we got YOU to give a shit about this website?
I'm interested because people I like from other sites are here and I enjoy hanging out with them.
I'm interested because people I like from other sites are here and I enjoy hanging out with them.
ksen
8th February 2012, 07:05 PM
btw, before any of these big ideas get underway I'm serving notice with this post that I am copyrighting/trademarking/branding/whatever "The money shot of forums."
I will entertain any licensing offers. :smug:
I will entertain any licensing offers. :smug:
ksen
8th February 2012, 07:10 PM
If Grumps has value in being super-critical of ideas, he has not applied it very robustly to the idea I DID put forward here.
Maybe it's more satisfying to slash at fog.
tbf to grumps I've been reading through this thread right now and if any ideas were actually put forward or seeds of ideas then I didn't notice them.
Maybe it's more satisfying to slash at fog.
tbf to grumps I've been reading through this thread right now and if any ideas were actually put forward or seeds of ideas then I didn't notice them.
ksen
8th February 2012, 07:11 PM
can you imagine the revenue a goonsay coffee mug or tshirt would draw at TR? :grin:
:stare:
Why hasn't this been done yet!!
:stare:
Why hasn't this been done yet!!
ksen
8th February 2012, 07:11 PM
And may I add --
6 POST COMBO!!!!
6 POST COMBO!!!!
nick
8th February 2012, 07:14 PM
Here is my idea:
We ask for moneys. If the person does not pay, I go to her or his home and kill her or him in cold blood.
We ask for moneys. If the person does not pay, I go to her or his home and kill her or him in cold blood.
ksen
8th February 2012, 07:23 PM
I have slogged through this entire thread. I feel kind of dirty now. Why does Mind Romp need to be anything other than a nice place to hangout and unwind?
Really, you big pic guys are taking this thing way too seriously.
All I expect out of this forum is to have a good time with people I've met online and occasionally see a naked pic of them. I don't think I'm asking too much.
Really, you big pic guys are taking this thing way too seriously.
All I expect out of this forum is to have a good time with people I've met online and occasionally see a naked pic of them. I don't think I'm asking too much.
FedUpWithFaith
8th February 2012, 07:26 PM
I have slogged through this entire thread. I feel kind of dirty now. Why does Mind Romp need to be anything other than a nice place to hangout and unwind?
Really, you big pic guys are taking this thing way too seriously.
All I expect out of this forum is to have a good time with people I've met online and occasionally see a naked pic of them. I don't think I'm asking too much.
:facepalm:
Maybe we'll meet again someday in some 10th order splinter forum from this with 8 members, 3 of whom are active.
I'll bet mafia is the only thing holding this thing together.
Really, you big pic guys are taking this thing way too seriously.
All I expect out of this forum is to have a good time with people I've met online and occasionally see a naked pic of them. I don't think I'm asking too much.
:facepalm:
Maybe we'll meet again someday in some 10th order splinter forum from this with 8 members, 3 of whom are active.
I'll bet mafia is the only thing holding this thing together.
borealis
8th February 2012, 07:33 PM
Hm. 126 members, among whom perhaps 25 play mafia games.
ksen
8th February 2012, 07:35 PM
I have slogged through this entire thread. I feel kind of dirty now. Why does Mind Romp need to be anything other than a nice place to hangout and unwind?
Really, you big pic guys are taking this thing way too seriously.
All I expect out of this forum is to have a good time with people I've met online and occasionally see a naked pic of them. I don't think I'm asking too much.
:facepalm:
Maybe we'll meet again someday in some 10th order splinter forum from this with 8 members, 3 of whom are active.
I'll bet mafia is the only thing holding this thing together.
I have yet to play a mafia game here. :stuckup:
Really, you big pic guys are taking this thing way too seriously.
All I expect out of this forum is to have a good time with people I've met online and occasionally see a naked pic of them. I don't think I'm asking too much.
:facepalm:
Maybe we'll meet again someday in some 10th order splinter forum from this with 8 members, 3 of whom are active.
I'll bet mafia is the only thing holding this thing together.
I have yet to play a mafia game here. :stuckup:
FedUpWithFaith
8th February 2012, 09:23 PM
Hm. 126 members, among whom perhaps 25 play mafia games.
How many of those 126 members are active (let's say more than 5 posts/month)? I wouldn't be surprised if the 8:3 ratio is spot on. In fact, I'll bet it's probably optimistic.
And again, nothing wrong with Mafia. I may play too some day.
How many of those 126 members are active (let's say more than 5 posts/month)? I wouldn't be surprised if the 8:3 ratio is spot on. In fact, I'll bet it's probably optimistic.
And again, nothing wrong with Mafia. I may play too some day.
oblivion
8th February 2012, 09:32 PM
while a mafia game is on, it does give people a reason to hang around and check out other threads, and their posts give people not playing the game something to strike sparks against.
Like I said somewhere else - bait.
Other forms of bait are cool, too. The TR memescape lassoed a couple folks in. :grin:
Bigger draws would be nice, and I think there have been ideas - podcasts in particular - that might have that effect. I'm really not sure because I don't know if podcasts have been effective draws at other sites, or if it's something that the people already registered there have some fun with.
Like I said somewhere else - bait.
Other forms of bait are cool, too. The TR memescape lassoed a couple folks in. :grin:
Bigger draws would be nice, and I think there have been ideas - podcasts in particular - that might have that effect. I'm really not sure because I don't know if podcasts have been effective draws at other sites, or if it's something that the people already registered there have some fun with.
FedUpWithFaith
8th February 2012, 09:50 PM
while a mafia game is on, it does give people a reason to hang around and check out other threads, and their posts give people not playing the game something to strike sparks against.
Like I said somewhere else - bait.
Other forms of bait are cool, too. The TR memescape lassoed a couple folks in. :grin:
Bigger draws would be nice, and I think there have been ideas - podcasts in particular - that might have that effect. I'm really not sure because I don't know if podcasts have been effective draws at other sites, or if it's something that the people already registered there have some fun with.
Mafia is a legitimate driver! Alone, I doubt it's enough though. But with creativity and passion I could see online forum games being a major driver to this forum. It certainly seems to be where the most passion is. I'd have no problem capitalizing on this at all, even if I never play. The types of people who seem to be attracted to these games also seem to fit our culture. Or is Mafia big at RR and white power forums?
Like I said somewhere else - bait.
Other forms of bait are cool, too. The TR memescape lassoed a couple folks in. :grin:
Bigger draws would be nice, and I think there have been ideas - podcasts in particular - that might have that effect. I'm really not sure because I don't know if podcasts have been effective draws at other sites, or if it's something that the people already registered there have some fun with.
Mafia is a legitimate driver! Alone, I doubt it's enough though. But with creativity and passion I could see online forum games being a major driver to this forum. It certainly seems to be where the most passion is. I'd have no problem capitalizing on this at all, even if I never play. The types of people who seem to be attracted to these games also seem to fit our culture. Or is Mafia big at RR and white power forums?
oblivion
8th February 2012, 09:53 PM
No idea. A mafia community has to hit a certain size to be sustainable, which is one reason why multiple forums share this mafia community.
DangerBlouse
8th February 2012, 09:56 PM
Membership requirements should include the posting of a full frontal nude shot (which, of course, becomes property of the site).
Revenue would be generated through the sales of these images to what could amount to (I'm quite certain) a wide variety of fetish sites and devotees.
Revenue would be generated through the sales of these images to what could amount to (I'm quite certain) a wide variety of fetish sites and devotees.
borealis
8th February 2012, 10:08 PM
Be careful what you wish for.
FedUpWithFaith
8th February 2012, 10:17 PM
No idea. A mafia community has to hit a certain size to be sustainable, which is one reason why multiple forums share this mafia community.
I'm not advocating this as a solution but offering the idea to get people thinking.
If this site had tournaments for mafia like others had for poker and offered a million dollar prize, you can bet this site would be huge almost overnight.
I'm not advocating this as a solution but offering the idea to get people thinking.
If this site had tournaments for mafia like others had for poker and offered a million dollar prize, you can bet this site would be huge almost overnight.
charlou
8th February 2012, 10:47 PM
No idea. A mafia community has to hit a certain size to be sustainable, which is one reason why multiple forums share this mafia community.
I'm not advocating this as a solution but offering the idea to get people thinking.
If this site had tournaments for mafia like others had for poker and offered a million dollar prize, you can bet this site would be huge almost overnight.
I like the idea of cross fora mafia tournaments ...
I'm not advocating this as a solution but offering the idea to get people thinking.
If this site had tournaments for mafia like others had for poker and offered a million dollar prize, you can bet this site would be huge almost overnight.
I like the idea of cross fora mafia tournaments ...
oblivion
8th February 2012, 10:52 PM
I'm not sure how to turn mafia into tournament play. I mean you could track some games and figure out which players win most often, but individual play seldom wins games.
charlou
8th February 2012, 11:25 PM
I didn't really have individuals in mind, but teams would be impossible ... so scratch that one :D
FedUpWithFaith
9th February 2012, 12:03 AM
I didn't really have individuals in mind, but teams would be impossible ... so scratch that one :D
Again, not advocating, just hoping people will be creative and think outside of the box -
What if you created a new form of game derived from Mafia that did enable individual and/or team awards in a manner more connected to skill than luck?
The goal doesn't have to be a prize in terms of money. It could be bragging rights, ability to define next game, your place in next game, etc.
We could set up betting pools (with play money) to bet on teams or players. Maybe there could be a Fantasy Mafia League (for those of you familiar with fantasy baseball, football, basketball, etc.)
Not saying these are great ideas but maybe they will catalyze something cool. It's brainstorming. It should be fun!
I suppose I need to learn and play this game so I could really be helpful.:facepalm:
Again, not advocating, just hoping people will be creative and think outside of the box -
What if you created a new form of game derived from Mafia that did enable individual and/or team awards in a manner more connected to skill than luck?
The goal doesn't have to be a prize in terms of money. It could be bragging rights, ability to define next game, your place in next game, etc.
We could set up betting pools (with play money) to bet on teams or players. Maybe there could be a Fantasy Mafia League (for those of you familiar with fantasy baseball, football, basketball, etc.)
Not saying these are great ideas but maybe they will catalyze something cool. It's brainstorming. It should be fun!
I suppose I need to learn and play this game so I could really be helpful.:facepalm:
Cunt
9th February 2012, 01:46 AM
No idea. A mafia community has to hit a certain size to be sustainable, which is one reason why multiple forums share this mafia community.
I'm not advocating this as a solution but offering the idea to get people thinking.
If this site had tournaments for mafia like others had for poker and offered a million dollar prize, you can bet this site would be huge almost overnight.
I will put up prize-money for a game. I would prefer it were not chess. I would like to offer a modest amount (trust me - nothing exciting) and have someone ELSE have the worry seat. What if we all pitched some coins at FedUpWithFaith and forced him to distribute the winnings? I don't wantto say 'mafia' or 'chess' because if he (or someone else) is forced to figure out how to distribute the win and maybe legal details (games of skill are sometimes different from games of chance in tax law) they should figure out what they can do and cannot.
What do you say, FedUpWithFaith? Would you do such a thing?
I'm not advocating this as a solution but offering the idea to get people thinking.
If this site had tournaments for mafia like others had for poker and offered a million dollar prize, you can bet this site would be huge almost overnight.
I will put up prize-money for a game. I would prefer it were not chess. I would like to offer a modest amount (trust me - nothing exciting) and have someone ELSE have the worry seat. What if we all pitched some coins at FedUpWithFaith and forced him to distribute the winnings? I don't wantto say 'mafia' or 'chess' because if he (or someone else) is forced to figure out how to distribute the win and maybe legal details (games of skill are sometimes different from games of chance in tax law) they should figure out what they can do and cannot.
What do you say, FedUpWithFaith? Would you do such a thing?
nick
9th February 2012, 02:07 AM
How about last man left standing wins the prize?
Cunt
9th February 2012, 02:47 AM
How about last man left standing wins the prize?
Oh, you think ridiculous will stop me, eh?
Okay, I suggest we run with this idea. We all chip money in, put it in a cunt in the middle of a whorehouse, and fuck our way to the championship. I got six bucks to put up for prizemoney. Who wants to pay for the hoors?
Oh, you think ridiculous will stop me, eh?
Okay, I suggest we run with this idea. We all chip money in, put it in a cunt in the middle of a whorehouse, and fuck our way to the championship. I got six bucks to put up for prizemoney. Who wants to pay for the hoors?
Jerome
9th February 2012, 03:09 AM
at jref they have a badge one can wear for writing the best post
oblivion
9th February 2012, 03:10 AM
wow.
charlou
9th February 2012, 03:18 AM
I like to play mafia and other games for fun ... entertainment, relaxation, stimulation ... I wouldn't play for a prize.
I did once play a game for a prize ... on RD's forum the last person to post in a thread by a secret, predetermined time would win RD's Growing Up In The Universe dvd :D ... I'd be in something like that again.
I did once play a game for a prize ... on RD's forum the last person to post in a thread by a secret, predetermined time would win RD's Growing Up In The Universe dvd :D ... I'd be in something like that again.
oblivion
9th February 2012, 03:24 AM
what about competing for a MindRomp mug or tshirt?
Jerome
9th February 2012, 03:29 AM
they also have a new thread each month celebrating the worst post, the prize is named after a long since banned member
charlou
9th February 2012, 03:40 AM
what about competing for a MindRomp mug or tshirt?
That would be p cool :)
That would be p cool :)
charlou
9th February 2012, 03:42 AM
There are talented and skilled people here .. maybe we could have a registry of skills for barter or hire .. for the interested parties to negotiate among themselves?
FedUpWithFaith
9th February 2012, 03:46 AM
No idea. A mafia community has to hit a certain size to be sustainable, which is one reason why multiple forums share this mafia community.
I'm not advocating this as a solution but offering the idea to get people thinking.
If this site had tournaments for mafia like others had for poker and offered a million dollar prize, you can bet this site would be huge almost overnight.
I will put up prize-money for a game.
I doubt anybody will get excited by winning your last $3.
Weren't you just panhandling for money a few pages back? :hehe:
What if we all pitched some coins at FedUpWithFaith and forced him to distribute the winnings?
Unless they land in my lap, I'm not bending down to pick them up.:happyno:
What do you say, FedUpWithFaith? Would you do such a thing?
No way am I going to be the middleman of finance at MindRomp. I'm sure if we want to do something like this we can figure it out. There are plenty of online money transfer methods we can come up with once we figure out what we want to do. But I'm rather tired of meta-speculation. Let's come of with the motivating idea first.
We also have to be a little careful we don't technically break gambling laws though I know Australia is pretty liberal as countries go.
I'm not advocating this as a solution but offering the idea to get people thinking.
If this site had tournaments for mafia like others had for poker and offered a million dollar prize, you can bet this site would be huge almost overnight.
I will put up prize-money for a game.
I doubt anybody will get excited by winning your last $3.
Weren't you just panhandling for money a few pages back? :hehe:
What if we all pitched some coins at FedUpWithFaith and forced him to distribute the winnings?
Unless they land in my lap, I'm not bending down to pick them up.:happyno:
What do you say, FedUpWithFaith? Would you do such a thing?
No way am I going to be the middleman of finance at MindRomp. I'm sure if we want to do something like this we can figure it out. There are plenty of online money transfer methods we can come up with once we figure out what we want to do. But I'm rather tired of meta-speculation. Let's come of with the motivating idea first.
We also have to be a little careful we don't technically break gambling laws though I know Australia is pretty liberal as countries go.
Jerome
9th February 2012, 03:47 AM
There are talented and skilled people here .. maybe we could have a registry of skills for barter or hire .. for the interested parties to negotiate among themselves?
I can play basketball, I could offer training in the sport.
I can play basketball, I could offer training in the sport.
Grumps
9th February 2012, 08:36 PM
I'd happily take all your money.
You wouldn't see it again, but I'd take it.
You wouldn't see it again, but I'd take it.
borealis
9th February 2012, 08:37 PM
There are talented and skilled people here .. maybe we could have a registry of skills for barter or hire .. for the interested parties to negotiate among themselves?
I can play basketball, I could offer training in the sport.
I had no idea there was a gnome league.
I can play basketball, I could offer training in the sport.
I had no idea there was a gnome league.
Jerome
9th February 2012, 09:01 PM
http://www.bigbasketball.com/basketball%20gnome.jpg
Jerome
9th February 2012, 09:02 PM
Yes, I can palm a basketball. ;]
nick
9th February 2012, 11:21 PM
How about last man left standing wins the prize?
Oh, you think ridiculous will stop me, eh?
Okay, I suggest we run with this idea. We all chip money in, put it in a cunt in the middle of a whorehouse, and fuck our way to the championship. I got six bucks to put up for prizemoney. Who wants to pay for the hoors?
I'm in but one caveat: no rules.
Oh, you think ridiculous will stop me, eh?
Okay, I suggest we run with this idea. We all chip money in, put it in a cunt in the middle of a whorehouse, and fuck our way to the championship. I got six bucks to put up for prizemoney. Who wants to pay for the hoors?
I'm in but one caveat: no rules.
charlou
9th February 2012, 11:27 PM
There are talented and skilled people here .. maybe we could have a registry of skills for barter or hire .. for the interested parties to negotiate among themselves?
I can play basketball, I could offer training in the sport.
I had no idea there was a gnome league.
http://www.bigbasketball.com/basketball%20gnome.jpg
My suggestion was serioz :sadcheer:
I can play basketball, I could offer training in the sport.
I had no idea there was a gnome league.
http://www.bigbasketball.com/basketball%20gnome.jpg
My suggestion was serioz :sadcheer:
borealis
9th February 2012, 11:51 PM
Elouise, I think people already do that - network to get done the things that can be done when people live continents away from each other, or find skilled people from their own area they happen to know online. Humans barter, nature of the beast.
Grumps
9th February 2012, 11:55 PM
Elouise: Craigslist. Also, online local directories.
Breaking in to that particular field is going to be a bit of a difficult thing.
Breaking in to that particular field is going to be a bit of a difficult thing.
charlou
10th February 2012, 12:07 AM
^ Both true. :)
Cunt
10th February 2012, 01:07 AM
I have found and encouraged excellent writers through the forums. I would keep doing it. I would like others to try my method.
I found an author i liked, and offered him money to handwrite some stuff and send it to me. I think (I hope) I got him some of what he needs now. If he gets famous, my guess is that his handwritten manuscripts could be worth something. If he doesn't, I still feel I got more value from his handwriting than someone would have gotten from plain type.
I found an author i liked, and offered him money to handwrite some stuff and send it to me. I think (I hope) I got him some of what he needs now. If he gets famous, my guess is that his handwritten manuscripts could be worth something. If he doesn't, I still feel I got more value from his handwriting than someone would have gotten from plain type.
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