The ethics of tipping. page 1
Cunt
3rd February 2012, 06:06 AM
I have been of the position for some time now that tipping is unethical on the part of the restaurant owners.
Basically, they are leaving the job of paying their staff partly to assholes like me. Assholes who tip more based on cleavage, appearance, how fast the service is or other things which should not affect the wages of the person serving the food.
My country has laws against discrimination by sex, the willingness to press tits against a customers arm, or the inability to become three people at once (okay, I am not sure about that last)
Let me add right away for you servers out there, I tip. I understand that this is the system we have and holding that tip back is punishing the servers for the unethical behaviour of restauranteurs.
I just read an article from a member here which has me re-thinking that position (http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2011/11/artificial-intelligence). Maybe this kind of personal service will have to be in place, and paid that way.
What are your thoughts on it. The article might or might not change my mind.
Basically, they are leaving the job of paying their staff partly to assholes like me. Assholes who tip more based on cleavage, appearance, how fast the service is or other things which should not affect the wages of the person serving the food.
My country has laws against discrimination by sex, the willingness to press tits against a customers arm, or the inability to become three people at once (okay, I am not sure about that last)
Let me add right away for you servers out there, I tip. I understand that this is the system we have and holding that tip back is punishing the servers for the unethical behaviour of restauranteurs.
I just read an article from a member here which has me re-thinking that position (http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2011/11/artificial-intelligence). Maybe this kind of personal service will have to be in place, and paid that way.
What are your thoughts on it. The article might or might not change my mind.
nick
3rd February 2012, 06:18 AM
I don't tip because society says I have to. Alright, I tip when somebody really deserves a tip. If they put forth an effort, I'll give them something extra. But I mean, this tipping automatically, that's for the birds. As far as I'm concerned they're just doing their job.
Cunt
3rd February 2012, 06:28 AM
Since in most of North America (the IRS and Revenue Canada - don't know about Mexico) the taxman assumes a certain amount of tips recieved, and taxes that as if the server were paid wages, you are a cheap fuck who doesn't pay fairly.
I don't blame you, being a cheap fuck is very sensible. Trouble is, most cheap fucks don't know that they are costing the server money by not tipping. Perhaps you should check your local tax laws before basing a decision like what an employees wages ought to be on a shit movie scene.
I don't blame you, being a cheap fuck is very sensible. Trouble is, most cheap fucks don't know that they are costing the server money by not tipping. Perhaps you should check your local tax laws before basing a decision like what an employees wages ought to be on a shit movie scene.
ksen
3rd February 2012, 06:34 AM
Basically, they are leaving the job of paying their staff partly to assholes like me.
Hate to break it to you cunt but that'd be the case whether there was tipping or not. The revenue that comes in to pay the wages comes from assholes like you . . . and me.
Hate to break it to you cunt but that'd be the case whether there was tipping or not. The revenue that comes in to pay the wages comes from assholes like you . . . and me.
Cunt
3rd February 2012, 06:49 AM
Right, but ksen, if you are, like me, the average asshole customer, you might reduce the tip for a few reasons. For example.
1) slow service
2) no drink refill
3) server appears unkempt and disorganized
You might even think you were being reasonable. Fucker.
1) server is covering for 2 absent coworkers
2) see 1
3) see 1
The blame is ALWAYS the bosses, in a restaurant. He should be paying their wages because he not only knows what is going on, but has a legal obligation to pay fairly, according to labour law. You can choose to not even bother advising yourself of labour law, source deductions or tax law if you choose, and tip based on uninformed opinions about someone else's business.
If you see what I mean.
1) slow service
2) no drink refill
3) server appears unkempt and disorganized
You might even think you were being reasonable. Fucker.
1) server is covering for 2 absent coworkers
2) see 1
3) see 1
The blame is ALWAYS the bosses, in a restaurant. He should be paying their wages because he not only knows what is going on, but has a legal obligation to pay fairly, according to labour law. You can choose to not even bother advising yourself of labour law, source deductions or tax law if you choose, and tip based on uninformed opinions about someone else's business.
If you see what I mean.
Hermit
3rd February 2012, 07:00 AM
The institutionalised tradition of using tips to compensate for woefully inadequate wage rates seems to be a peculiarity of the USA and its hat. In Europe and Australasia any amount of tips is just a performance bonus. Many restaurants pool the shift's proceeds and divvy it up equally among serving and kitchen personnel. Thus I have no qualms in not tipping a brass razoo if I did not like the food and/or service. I do like to show my appreciation when either or both were good by adding 10% or more to the bill.
Cunt
3rd February 2012, 07:27 AM
There are plenty of woefully inadequate wage jobs with no tips, too.
Wal-Mart - just what the people wanted.
Wal-Mart - just what the people wanted.
Hermit
3rd February 2012, 07:35 AM
There are plenty of woefully inadequate wage jobs with no tips, too.
Wal-Mart - just what the people wanted.
That is well worth pointing out, yes. Also, I don't think I have ever tipped anyone in a fast-food chain.
Wal-Mart - just what the people wanted.
That is well worth pointing out, yes. Also, I don't think I have ever tipped anyone in a fast-food chain.
Grumps
3rd February 2012, 07:36 AM
My tipping is based on entirely on attitude.
Hermit
3rd February 2012, 07:46 AM
My tipping is based on entirely on attitude.
Dismal?
Dismal?
Grumps
3rd February 2012, 08:26 AM
My tipping is based on entirely on attitude.
Dismal?
If their attitude is dismal, then yes their tip is.
Dismal?
If their attitude is dismal, then yes their tip is.
Cpt. Gender Injustice
3rd February 2012, 08:56 AM
labour
get out
get out
oblivion
3rd February 2012, 12:44 PM
I did my time in restaurants when I was in college. I always tip at least 20%, rounding up to the nearest dollar.
Sometimes, when I expect to return to a restaurant, and I get bad service (usually hurried due to being exceptionally busy), I will leave a memorably large tip. word gets around, and future visits go very well. I learned how well making a positive impression works when I was the one carrying the tray.
I agree, however, that paying servers half-minimum and taxing them like they make at least minimum is shitty both on the part of restaurant managers and on the part of taxing agencies. It's applied equally to the kid holding the coffee pot behind the counter at the donut shop and to the five star restaurant.
Sometimes, when I expect to return to a restaurant, and I get bad service (usually hurried due to being exceptionally busy), I will leave a memorably large tip. word gets around, and future visits go very well. I learned how well making a positive impression works when I was the one carrying the tray.
I agree, however, that paying servers half-minimum and taxing them like they make at least minimum is shitty both on the part of restaurant managers and on the part of taxing agencies. It's applied equally to the kid holding the coffee pot behind the counter at the donut shop and to the five star restaurant.
Jerome
3rd February 2012, 01:46 PM
Just another in a long line of examples why labor should not be taxed.
Cunt
3rd February 2012, 02:32 PM
I also don't like the feeling that the servers are mooching. They ARE providing a service, but when I call my plumber over (arguably a shittier job), he states a fair price and is pleased when I pay it promptly.
Play this scenario out...
nick goes to a restaurant, but doesn't want to tip. Lets say that he has learned about his tip-free visits costing the server money, so he tells his server before being seated that he doesn't tip.
The server then can either choose to seat him and lose money, or choose to ask him to go to the McDonalds next door and not lose money.
The owner of the restaurant should be okay with this, but we all know it isn't okay. The server has to take whatever wages (the tip portion) they are offered and like it.
I think if tipping were honestly posted, as it is in some places, it would be okay. The largest problem is that it is vague and when you ask a server about the tipping amount it seems they would have a tough time being objective.
The biggest piss off is demonstrated thusly - I know a hot blonde flirty chick who made over 600 bucks in the same restaurant as a hardworking fellow who took home just over a hundred that night. Ick.
Play this scenario out...
nick goes to a restaurant, but doesn't want to tip. Lets say that he has learned about his tip-free visits costing the server money, so he tells his server before being seated that he doesn't tip.
The server then can either choose to seat him and lose money, or choose to ask him to go to the McDonalds next door and not lose money.
The owner of the restaurant should be okay with this, but we all know it isn't okay. The server has to take whatever wages (the tip portion) they are offered and like it.
I think if tipping were honestly posted, as it is in some places, it would be okay. The largest problem is that it is vague and when you ask a server about the tipping amount it seems they would have a tough time being objective.
The biggest piss off is demonstrated thusly - I know a hot blonde flirty chick who made over 600 bucks in the same restaurant as a hardworking fellow who took home just over a hundred that night. Ick.
borealis
3rd February 2012, 03:41 PM
My tipping is based on entirely on attitude.
Dismal?
If their attitude is dismal, then yes their tip is.
Being a waiter is often a shitty job with shitty working conditions. A dismal attitude may be appropriate, especially when dealing with shitty customers who expect a waiter to be subservient, accept abusive behaviour, and grit their teeth and grin regardless of their misery.
They get paid little enough, they have to be accomplished actors as well?
Tip the damn waiter the going rate, don't be a judgemental bastard.
Dismal?
If their attitude is dismal, then yes their tip is.
Being a waiter is often a shitty job with shitty working conditions. A dismal attitude may be appropriate, especially when dealing with shitty customers who expect a waiter to be subservient, accept abusive behaviour, and grit their teeth and grin regardless of their misery.
They get paid little enough, they have to be accomplished actors as well?
Tip the damn waiter the going rate, don't be a judgemental bastard.
Grumps
3rd February 2012, 04:00 PM
My tipping is based on entirely on attitude.
Dismal?
If their attitude is dismal, then yes their tip is.
Being a waiter is often a shitty job with shitty working conditions. A dismal attitude may be appropriate, especially when dealing with shitty customers who expect a waiter to be subservient, accept abusive behaviour, and grit their teeth and grin regardless of their misery.
They get paid little enough, they have to be accomplished actors as well?
Tip the damn waiter the going rate, don't be a judgemental bastard.
I'm going to be as judgemental as I damn well fucking please.
I sit behind a desk for ten hours at a medical clinic. You think I don't deal with abuse, inanity and self-entitlement? With people who don't understand that there are more patients in the place than them? Who fucking expect the entire practice to drop everything to treat their stubbed toe?
I'll be as judge-fucking-mental as I like. Just be cordial, be patient, and apologise when you fuck up.
Dismal?
If their attitude is dismal, then yes their tip is.
Being a waiter is often a shitty job with shitty working conditions. A dismal attitude may be appropriate, especially when dealing with shitty customers who expect a waiter to be subservient, accept abusive behaviour, and grit their teeth and grin regardless of their misery.
They get paid little enough, they have to be accomplished actors as well?
Tip the damn waiter the going rate, don't be a judgemental bastard.
I'm going to be as judgemental as I damn well fucking please.
I sit behind a desk for ten hours at a medical clinic. You think I don't deal with abuse, inanity and self-entitlement? With people who don't understand that there are more patients in the place than them? Who fucking expect the entire practice to drop everything to treat their stubbed toe?
I'll be as judge-fucking-mental as I like. Just be cordial, be patient, and apologise when you fuck up.
Hermit
3rd February 2012, 04:02 PM
My tipping is based on entirely on attitude.
Dismal?
If their attitude is dismal, then yes their tip is.
Being a waiter is often a shitty job with shitty working conditions. A dismal attitude may be appropriate, especially when dealing with shitty customers who expect a waiter to be subservient, accept abusive behaviour, and grit their teeth and grin regardless of their misery.
They get paid little enough, they have to be accomplished actors as well?
Tip the damn waiter the going rate, don't be a judgemental bastard.Grumps lives in Australia, where there is no "going rate" because restaurant employees get a wage calculated without the presumption of tips. That is why tips are optional here. Rather than being expected as a matter of course, let alone at some particular percentage of the bill, they are regarded as a welcome bonus.
Dismal?
If their attitude is dismal, then yes their tip is.
Being a waiter is often a shitty job with shitty working conditions. A dismal attitude may be appropriate, especially when dealing with shitty customers who expect a waiter to be subservient, accept abusive behaviour, and grit their teeth and grin regardless of their misery.
They get paid little enough, they have to be accomplished actors as well?
Tip the damn waiter the going rate, don't be a judgemental bastard.Grumps lives in Australia, where there is no "going rate" because restaurant employees get a wage calculated without the presumption of tips. That is why tips are optional here. Rather than being expected as a matter of course, let alone at some particular percentage of the bill, they are regarded as a welcome bonus.
borealis
3rd February 2012, 04:14 PM
That's very different from the North American situation, where tipping is a pretty necessary part of a waiter's wages, and they are taxed on a presumption of having earned at least some tips.
So I can see his point better. Mine stands, wrt the situation here.
So I can see his point better. Mine stands, wrt the situation here.
Jerome
3rd February 2012, 04:20 PM
Grumps lives in Australia, where there is no "going rate" because restaurant employees get a wage calculated without the presumption of tips. That is why tips are optional here. Rather than being expected as a matter of course, let alone at some particular percentage of the bill, they are regarded as a welcome bonus.
I would be curious to experience dinning in Australia and see how the service compares to my experience in North America under these two very different manners of compensation.
I would be curious to experience dinning in Australia and see how the service compares to my experience in North America under these two very different manners of compensation.
nostrum
3rd February 2012, 07:33 PM
Grumps lives in Australia, where there is no "going rate" because restaurant employees get a wage calculated without the presumption of tips. That is why tips are optional here. Rather than being expected as a matter of course, let alone at some particular percentage of the bill, they are regarded as a welcome bonus.
I would be curious to experience dinning in Australia and see how the service compares to my experience in North America under these two very different manners of compensation.
The service seemed the same to me. Just that I knew I was expected to tip in the US, and on mainland EU.
Terrible that servers are working on a commission basis and I agree with cunt it is discriminatory.
I would be curious to experience dinning in Australia and see how the service compares to my experience in North America under these two very different manners of compensation.
The service seemed the same to me. Just that I knew I was expected to tip in the US, and on mainland EU.
Terrible that servers are working on a commission basis and I agree with cunt it is discriminatory.
Cunt
3rd February 2012, 11:15 PM
So what to do, nostrum?
I have recently talked over with my sweetheart the possibility of stopping tipping - EVER.
This would involve going to pick up our own pizzas, only going to restaurants with counter service and never going out to bars. Most of that is no problem, but then there are taxis, coffee shops (who hand you an empty cup to fill yourself AND have a tip cup on the counter for fuck sakes) and perhaps some others which I have forgotten.
A bit inconvenient socially.
It is the only way I can see to punish the responsible parties (the restauranteurs, I mean)
I have recently talked over with my sweetheart the possibility of stopping tipping - EVER.
This would involve going to pick up our own pizzas, only going to restaurants with counter service and never going out to bars. Most of that is no problem, but then there are taxis, coffee shops (who hand you an empty cup to fill yourself AND have a tip cup on the counter for fuck sakes) and perhaps some others which I have forgotten.
A bit inconvenient socially.
It is the only way I can see to punish the responsible parties (the restauranteurs, I mean)
Cunt
3rd February 2012, 11:17 PM
I'll be as judge-fucking-mental as I like. Just be cordial, be patient, and apologise when you fuck up.
If a server treated you this way, would your tip bridge the gap between minimum wage (which is often lower for servers) and the wage you earn?
I mean, if you want to compare apples to oranges...
If a server treated you this way, would your tip bridge the gap between minimum wage (which is often lower for servers) and the wage you earn?
I mean, if you want to compare apples to oranges...
Jerome
3rd February 2012, 11:35 PM
It is the only way I can see to punish the responsible parties (the restauranteurs, I mean)
at the expense of the worker
at the expense of the worker
Mantisdreamz
3rd February 2012, 11:42 PM
I tip at least 20%.. maybe 15 if the service is bad.
I kind of look at it in a self respect way too... throw in an extra 3 dollars (not a whole lot), to go above what's expected as tip and it's greatly appreciated. I'd feel uncomfortable leaving less, which is why it's a self respect thing too.
I kind of look at it in a self respect way too... throw in an extra 3 dollars (not a whole lot), to go above what's expected as tip and it's greatly appreciated. I'd feel uncomfortable leaving less, which is why it's a self respect thing too.
FedUpWithFaith
3rd February 2012, 11:53 PM
I wasn't able to vote on tip% because the options are not sufficiently inclusive.
I generally tip 0.00000001% - 0.00000005%.
I alway go to restaurants taking a microscope, a microchisel, and at least one penny.
I generally tip 0.00000001% - 0.00000005%.
I alway go to restaurants taking a microscope, a microchisel, and at least one penny.
FedUpWithFaith
4th February 2012, 12:05 AM
Just another in a long line of examples why labor should not be taxed.
Agreed. Though I laugh just thinking about what would happen the day after such a tax change.
Overnight, all that carried interest that assholes like Mitt Romney get paid in to avoid taxes will become labor wages, which is what it really is. And then, instead of paying 15%, he'll pay 0%.
Agreed. Though I laugh just thinking about what would happen the day after such a tax change.
Overnight, all that carried interest that assholes like Mitt Romney get paid in to avoid taxes will become labor wages, which is what it really is. And then, instead of paying 15%, he'll pay 0%.
Brother Daniel
4th February 2012, 12:10 AM
(Disclaimer: Writing from a Canadian perspective.)
Wait. What's this about being taxed on the presumption of having received tips? How does that work?
Revenue Canada gets a copy of your payment information from your employer, showing only what you have received therefrom. The T1 tax form has a space ("other income") where you officially have to put your tips, but they have no way to verify whatever you put there.
At least, that's how it was when I was delivering pizza, 18 years ago. People were shocked when I told them that I had followed the law there. (Well, sort of. I didn't keep careful records, but I made an honest rough estimate.)
What has changed? If you work in a job where tips are culturally expected, do employers now (have to) exaggerate what they have paid you, when they report to Revenue Canada?
I R confus.
Wait. What's this about being taxed on the presumption of having received tips? How does that work?
Revenue Canada gets a copy of your payment information from your employer, showing only what you have received therefrom. The T1 tax form has a space ("other income") where you officially have to put your tips, but they have no way to verify whatever you put there.
At least, that's how it was when I was delivering pizza, 18 years ago. People were shocked when I told them that I had followed the law there. (Well, sort of. I didn't keep careful records, but I made an honest rough estimate.)
What has changed? If you work in a job where tips are culturally expected, do employers now (have to) exaggerate what they have paid you, when they report to Revenue Canada?
I R confus.
Jerome
4th February 2012, 12:25 AM
Just another in a long line of examples why labor should not be taxed.
Agreed. Though I laugh just thinking about what would happen the day after such a tax change.
Overnight, all that carried interest that assholes like Mitt Romney get paid in to avoid taxes will become labor wages, which is what it really is. And then, instead of paying 15%, he'll pay 0%.
No silly, if a household is bringing in a mass amount of funds then they are making a profit.
Agreed. Though I laugh just thinking about what would happen the day after such a tax change.
Overnight, all that carried interest that assholes like Mitt Romney get paid in to avoid taxes will become labor wages, which is what it really is. And then, instead of paying 15%, he'll pay 0%.
No silly, if a household is bringing in a mass amount of funds then they are making a profit.
Jerome
4th February 2012, 12:25 AM
eta: that is the talking point used to get the worker to agree to labor taxes in the first place.
Jerome
4th February 2012, 12:27 AM
In simplistic terms, Our system today:
The worker is taxed to pay interest to the non-worker tax free.
The worker is taxed to pay interest to the non-worker tax free.
Jerome
4th February 2012, 12:33 AM
(Disclaimer: Writing from a Canadian perspective.)
Wait. What's this about being taxed on the presumption of having received tips? How does that work?
Withholding from the employees meager pay check, just a couple of years ago the IRS started estimating wage taxes on unrecorded tips (government was tired of getting ripped off by those tax cheat workers). So now literally a server can be taxed on tips never received. The IRS assumes that the customer that just stifed you actually gave a tip.
Wait. What's this about being taxed on the presumption of having received tips? How does that work?
Withholding from the employees meager pay check, just a couple of years ago the IRS started estimating wage taxes on unrecorded tips (government was tired of getting ripped off by those tax cheat workers). So now literally a server can be taxed on tips never received. The IRS assumes that the customer that just stifed you actually gave a tip.
FedUpWithFaith
4th February 2012, 12:48 AM
Just another in a long line of examples why labor should not be taxed.
Agreed. Though I laugh just thinking about what would happen the day after such a tax change.
Overnight, all that carried interest that assholes like Mitt Romney get paid in to avoid taxes will become labor wages, which is what it really is. And then, instead of paying 15%, he'll pay 0%.
No silly, if a household is bringing in a mass amount of funds then they are making a profit.
Have no idea what you meant in the context of my post. Do you know what "carried interest" is? If not, look it up.
Agreed. Though I laugh just thinking about what would happen the day after such a tax change.
Overnight, all that carried interest that assholes like Mitt Romney get paid in to avoid taxes will become labor wages, which is what it really is. And then, instead of paying 15%, he'll pay 0%.
No silly, if a household is bringing in a mass amount of funds then they are making a profit.
Have no idea what you meant in the context of my post. Do you know what "carried interest" is? If not, look it up.
Jerome
4th February 2012, 12:53 AM
Have no idea what you meant in the context of my post. Do you know what "carried interest" is? If not, look it up.
You are entering the minutia of current tax law concerning the profiteer, I prefer that labor is not taxed.
You are entering the minutia of current tax law concerning the profiteer, I prefer that labor is not taxed.
FedUpWithFaith
4th February 2012, 12:58 AM
Have no idea what you meant in the context of my post. Do you know what "carried interest" is? If not, look it up.
You are entering the minutia of current tax law concerning the profiteer, I prefer that labor is not taxed.
Me too. I was only offering the somewhat serious joke that if you got your way the Romney's of the world would redefine their profits as labor.
FYI Carried Interest, which is how a lot of hedge fund dicks make their money, is basically a way of redefining their labor into profit, so they pay lower taxes than normal laborers, who don't have the govt. in their pocket.
You are entering the minutia of current tax law concerning the profiteer, I prefer that labor is not taxed.
Me too. I was only offering the somewhat serious joke that if you got your way the Romney's of the world would redefine their profits as labor.
FYI Carried Interest, which is how a lot of hedge fund dicks make their money, is basically a way of redefining their labor into profit, so they pay lower taxes than normal laborers, who don't have the govt. in their pocket.
Cunt
4th February 2012, 01:03 AM
It is the only way I can see to punish the responsible parties (the restauranteurs, I mean)
at the expense of the worker
Just how does my not patronizing a given restaurant cost the worker? They don't have to provide service for me, after all.
---------------------------------
I tip at least 20%.. maybe 15 if the service is bad.
Wow! What an asshole payroll person you are! I bet you are oblivious to it, too. Let me help you understand. You do realize that you are paying wages here, don't you? Would it be fair to ask you to look into fair wage practices a bit so as not to continue being a shitty payroll person?
First, to put it simply - if the service is bad, pay the regular tip, and ask to see the manager or preferably owner. Tell them the service sucked, and ask them to make good on it (comp a drink or meal etc.)
To expand, the poor service is ALWAYS the fault of the management / ownership. It may be poor training, poor supervision or lousy layout. It may be that only half the staff showed up. Whatever it is (including incompetence) it is the bosses problem and shouldn't be laid at the feet of some of the workers.
I kind of look at it in a self respect way too... throw in an extra 3 dollars (not a whole lot), to go above what's expected as tip and it's greatly appreciated. I'd feel uncomfortable leaving less, which is why it's a self respect thing too.
This is why it is wrong to make customers decide, without training, what to pay someone for wages. If it weren't a scummy, asshole restaurant owner fucking their staff with the help of a tipping system, they would put a big sign saying how much the tip is, and how to calculate it. They don't, because they know deep down in their black flabby hearts that they are fucking their staff.
--------------------------
(Disclaimer: Writing from a Canadian perspective.)
Wait. What's this about being taxed on the presumption of having received tips? How does that work?
Let's look at the source...
Gratuities or tips received by employees are income earned in respect of employment for purposes of the Income Tax Act.
Revenue Canada gets a copy of your payment information from your employer, showing only what you have received therefrom. The T1 tax form has a space ("other income") where you officially have to put your tips, but they have no way to verify whatever you put there.They are accountants. Are you sure there is NO way they can verify?
At least, that's how it was when I was delivering pizza, 18 years ago. People were shocked when I told them that I had followed the law there. (Well, sort of. I didn't keep careful records, but I made an honest rough estimate.)If you went back to it, and hid your tips, do you think you would be nervous under a CRA audit? Or do you think it would be best to just admit to the tips like you did last time?
What has changed? If you work in a job where tips are culturally expected, do employers now (have to) exaggerate what they have paid you, when they report to Revenue Canada?
I R confus.I don't get this last bit either, but it says quite clearly on the CRA site that they consider it income for tax purposes (though it may not be for CPP lol)
at the expense of the worker
Just how does my not patronizing a given restaurant cost the worker? They don't have to provide service for me, after all.
---------------------------------
I tip at least 20%.. maybe 15 if the service is bad.
Wow! What an asshole payroll person you are! I bet you are oblivious to it, too. Let me help you understand. You do realize that you are paying wages here, don't you? Would it be fair to ask you to look into fair wage practices a bit so as not to continue being a shitty payroll person?
First, to put it simply - if the service is bad, pay the regular tip, and ask to see the manager or preferably owner. Tell them the service sucked, and ask them to make good on it (comp a drink or meal etc.)
To expand, the poor service is ALWAYS the fault of the management / ownership. It may be poor training, poor supervision or lousy layout. It may be that only half the staff showed up. Whatever it is (including incompetence) it is the bosses problem and shouldn't be laid at the feet of some of the workers.
I kind of look at it in a self respect way too... throw in an extra 3 dollars (not a whole lot), to go above what's expected as tip and it's greatly appreciated. I'd feel uncomfortable leaving less, which is why it's a self respect thing too.
This is why it is wrong to make customers decide, without training, what to pay someone for wages. If it weren't a scummy, asshole restaurant owner fucking their staff with the help of a tipping system, they would put a big sign saying how much the tip is, and how to calculate it. They don't, because they know deep down in their black flabby hearts that they are fucking their staff.
--------------------------
(Disclaimer: Writing from a Canadian perspective.)
Wait. What's this about being taxed on the presumption of having received tips? How does that work?
Let's look at the source...
Gratuities or tips received by employees are income earned in respect of employment for purposes of the Income Tax Act.
Revenue Canada gets a copy of your payment information from your employer, showing only what you have received therefrom. The T1 tax form has a space ("other income") where you officially have to put your tips, but they have no way to verify whatever you put there.They are accountants. Are you sure there is NO way they can verify?
At least, that's how it was when I was delivering pizza, 18 years ago. People were shocked when I told them that I had followed the law there. (Well, sort of. I didn't keep careful records, but I made an honest rough estimate.)If you went back to it, and hid your tips, do you think you would be nervous under a CRA audit? Or do you think it would be best to just admit to the tips like you did last time?
What has changed? If you work in a job where tips are culturally expected, do employers now (have to) exaggerate what they have paid you, when they report to Revenue Canada?
I R confus.I don't get this last bit either, but it says quite clearly on the CRA site that they consider it income for tax purposes (though it may not be for CPP lol)
Jerome
4th February 2012, 01:22 AM
It is the only way I can see to punish the responsible parties (the restauranteurs, I mean)
at the expense of the worker
Just how does my not patronizing a given restaurant cost the worker? They don't have to provide service for me, after all.
---------------------------------
The question concerned not leaving a tip for a worker the government is taxing them on regardless..
at the expense of the worker
Just how does my not patronizing a given restaurant cost the worker? They don't have to provide service for me, after all.
---------------------------------
The question concerned not leaving a tip for a worker the government is taxing them on regardless..
Cunt
4th February 2012, 01:38 AM
I haven't advocated taking the tip from the worker. In fact, that would be pretty easy. I suggested not going to places that support tipping.
But my mind may change...
But my mind may change...
Jerome
4th February 2012, 01:52 AM
So eat at local restaurants and leave a fat tip.
nostrum
4th February 2012, 03:05 AM
So what to do, nostrum?
I have recently talked over with my sweetheart the possibility of stopping tipping - EVER.
This would involve going to pick up our own pizzas, only going to restaurants with counter service and never going out to bars. Most of that is no problem, but then there are taxis, coffee shops (who hand you an empty cup to fill yourself AND have a tip cup on the counter for fuck sakes) and perhaps some others which I have forgotten.
A bit inconvenient socially.
It is the only way I can see to punish the responsible parties (the restauranteurs, I mean)
Yeah, not sure what to do. I don't know how northern america got into the practice of not actually paying a proper wage to employees. If I had to guess, I'd say that tipping became de rigueur first and them employers decided they didn't actually have to pay their staff.
Legislating for worker's rights isn't a thing that happens in the US though, is it :??:
I have recently talked over with my sweetheart the possibility of stopping tipping - EVER.
This would involve going to pick up our own pizzas, only going to restaurants with counter service and never going out to bars. Most of that is no problem, but then there are taxis, coffee shops (who hand you an empty cup to fill yourself AND have a tip cup on the counter for fuck sakes) and perhaps some others which I have forgotten.
A bit inconvenient socially.
It is the only way I can see to punish the responsible parties (the restauranteurs, I mean)
Yeah, not sure what to do. I don't know how northern america got into the practice of not actually paying a proper wage to employees. If I had to guess, I'd say that tipping became de rigueur first and them employers decided they didn't actually have to pay their staff.
Legislating for worker's rights isn't a thing that happens in the US though, is it :??:
Jerome
4th February 2012, 03:16 AM
tipping is a way to get over on the government
fair taxes on labor include taxing the presumed tips
fair taxes on labor include taxing the presumed tips
Jerome
4th February 2012, 03:19 AM
Fuck!! They have created an entire industry out of the workers paying to file their taxes!
The system is shit, and any system that taxes the worker is shit.
The system is shit, and any system that taxes the worker is shit.
nostrum
4th February 2012, 03:29 AM
tipping is a way to get over on the government
fair taxes on labor include taxing the presumed tips
...clearly not, in Canada at least
Or were you being sarcastic?
fair taxes on labor include taxing the presumed tips
...clearly not, in Canada at least
Or were you being sarcastic?
Mantisdreamz
4th February 2012, 11:06 PM
I tip at least 20%.. maybe 15 if the service is bad.
Wow! What an asshole payroll person you are! I bet you are oblivious to it, too. Let me help you understand. You do realize that you are paying wages here, don't you? Would it be fair to ask you to look into fair wage practices a bit so as not to continue being a shitty payroll person?
I thought I was a good payroll person! Giving the servers extra, because their wages are poor. I see your point... but not tipping isn't going to make the restaurant owners change the wage. Here in Ontario, it's standard that minimum wage is 10.25 and minimum wage for liquor servers are 8.90. You'd have to take it up with the Ministry of Labour, I would imagine...
First, to put it simply - if the service is bad, pay the regular tip, and ask to see the manager or preferably owner. Tell them the service sucked, and ask them to make good on it (comp a drink or meal etc.)
:no:
To expand, the poor service is ALWAYS the fault of the management / ownership. It may be poor training, poor supervision or lousy layout. It may be that only half the staff showed up. Whatever it is (including incompetence) it is the bosses problem and shouldn't be laid at the feet of some of the workers.
I don't think so. The server could be having a poor day... just like how everyone has. But yes, it could also be due to what you are saying.
I kind of look at it in a self respect way too... throw in an extra 3 dollars (not a whole lot), to go above what's expected as tip and it's greatly appreciated. I'd feel uncomfortable leaving less, which is why it's a self respect thing too.
This is why it is wrong to make customers decide, without training, what to pay someone for wages. If it weren't a scummy, asshole restaurant owner fucking their staff with the help of a tipping system, they would put a big sign saying how much the tip is, and how to calculate it. They don't, because they know deep down in their black flabby hearts that they are fucking their staff.
I think they're just following the standard wages... If the standard wage is 8.90, then you can't blame them for following that as well. Agreed though, that they are getting a pretty sweet deal out of it.
Also, some management is a bit corrupt in the way that they will have the servers put a percentage of their tips into a 'house pool', that gets divided amongst management (who is getting a somewhat decent salary already).
^(that last statement will probably set you off, but it happens often).
Wow! What an asshole payroll person you are! I bet you are oblivious to it, too. Let me help you understand. You do realize that you are paying wages here, don't you? Would it be fair to ask you to look into fair wage practices a bit so as not to continue being a shitty payroll person?
I thought I was a good payroll person! Giving the servers extra, because their wages are poor. I see your point... but not tipping isn't going to make the restaurant owners change the wage. Here in Ontario, it's standard that minimum wage is 10.25 and minimum wage for liquor servers are 8.90. You'd have to take it up with the Ministry of Labour, I would imagine...
First, to put it simply - if the service is bad, pay the regular tip, and ask to see the manager or preferably owner. Tell them the service sucked, and ask them to make good on it (comp a drink or meal etc.)
:no:
To expand, the poor service is ALWAYS the fault of the management / ownership. It may be poor training, poor supervision or lousy layout. It may be that only half the staff showed up. Whatever it is (including incompetence) it is the bosses problem and shouldn't be laid at the feet of some of the workers.
I don't think so. The server could be having a poor day... just like how everyone has. But yes, it could also be due to what you are saying.
I kind of look at it in a self respect way too... throw in an extra 3 dollars (not a whole lot), to go above what's expected as tip and it's greatly appreciated. I'd feel uncomfortable leaving less, which is why it's a self respect thing too.
This is why it is wrong to make customers decide, without training, what to pay someone for wages. If it weren't a scummy, asshole restaurant owner fucking their staff with the help of a tipping system, they would put a big sign saying how much the tip is, and how to calculate it. They don't, because they know deep down in their black flabby hearts that they are fucking their staff.
I think they're just following the standard wages... If the standard wage is 8.90, then you can't blame them for following that as well. Agreed though, that they are getting a pretty sweet deal out of it.
Also, some management is a bit corrupt in the way that they will have the servers put a percentage of their tips into a 'house pool', that gets divided amongst management (who is getting a somewhat decent salary already).
^(that last statement will probably set you off, but it happens often).
Cunt
4th February 2012, 11:42 PM
I thought I was a good payroll person! Giving the servers extra, because their wages are poor. I see your point... but not tipping isn't going to make the restaurant owners change the wage. I appreciate that you gave it some thought. My intent was not to remove the tips from the servers, but to avoid visiting the establishment completely.
Here in Ontario, it's standard that minimum wage is 10.25 and minimum wage for liquor servers are 8.90. You'd have to take it up with the Ministry of Labour, I would imagine...See, it's shit like that that makes me want to avoid restaurants and bars. What a putrid way to operate.
First, to put it simply - if the service is bad, pay the regular tip, and ask to see the manager or preferably owner. Tell them the service sucked, and ask them to make good on it (comp a drink or meal etc.)
:no:Ya, I don't want to either. So I pay the tip whatever the service, and can either confront the manager every time, or eat at home.
Beans are fucking yummy.
I don't think so. The server could be having a poor day... just like how everyone has. But yes, it could also be due to what you are saying.If everyone were docked for having a 'poor day' at work, it might be fair, but we humans have a range of feelings.
Be nice if, say, being sad about a death didn't have to mean a pay cut that day.
I kind of look at it in a self respect way too... throw in an extra 3 dollars (not a whole lot), to go above what's expected as tip and it's greatly appreciated. I'd feel uncomfortable leaving less, which is why it's a self respect thing too.
This is why it is wrong to make customers decide, without training, what to pay someone for wages. If it weren't a scummy, asshole restaurant owner fucking their staff with the help of a tipping system, they would put a big sign saying how much the tip is, and how to calculate it. They don't, because they know deep down in their black flabby hearts that they are fucking their staff.
I think they're just following the standard wages... If the standard wage is 8.90, then you can't blame them for following that as well. Agreed though, that they are getting a pretty sweet deal out of it.
Also, some management is a bit corrupt in the way that they will have the servers put a percentage of their tips into a 'house pool', that gets divided amongst management (who is getting a somewhat decent salary already).
^(that last statement will probably set you off, but it happens often).
I know, and advocate tipping discreetly and with cash whenever possible. (I very often end up paying with plastic, though...
Here in Ontario, it's standard that minimum wage is 10.25 and minimum wage for liquor servers are 8.90. You'd have to take it up with the Ministry of Labour, I would imagine...See, it's shit like that that makes me want to avoid restaurants and bars. What a putrid way to operate.
First, to put it simply - if the service is bad, pay the regular tip, and ask to see the manager or preferably owner. Tell them the service sucked, and ask them to make good on it (comp a drink or meal etc.)
:no:Ya, I don't want to either. So I pay the tip whatever the service, and can either confront the manager every time, or eat at home.
Beans are fucking yummy.
I don't think so. The server could be having a poor day... just like how everyone has. But yes, it could also be due to what you are saying.If everyone were docked for having a 'poor day' at work, it might be fair, but we humans have a range of feelings.
Be nice if, say, being sad about a death didn't have to mean a pay cut that day.
I kind of look at it in a self respect way too... throw in an extra 3 dollars (not a whole lot), to go above what's expected as tip and it's greatly appreciated. I'd feel uncomfortable leaving less, which is why it's a self respect thing too.
This is why it is wrong to make customers decide, without training, what to pay someone for wages. If it weren't a scummy, asshole restaurant owner fucking their staff with the help of a tipping system, they would put a big sign saying how much the tip is, and how to calculate it. They don't, because they know deep down in their black flabby hearts that they are fucking their staff.
I think they're just following the standard wages... If the standard wage is 8.90, then you can't blame them for following that as well. Agreed though, that they are getting a pretty sweet deal out of it.
Also, some management is a bit corrupt in the way that they will have the servers put a percentage of their tips into a 'house pool', that gets divided amongst management (who is getting a somewhat decent salary already).
^(that last statement will probably set you off, but it happens often).
I know, and advocate tipping discreetly and with cash whenever possible. (I very often end up paying with plastic, though...
Amok
4th February 2012, 11:56 PM
Cunt wrote:
It is the only way I can see to punish the responsible parties (the restauranteurs, I mean)I don't know why people have the idea that all restaurateurs are underpaying their staff because they're cheap, greedy, etc. Owning a restaurant can be a high-stress and low-return situation. Restaurants come and go at an amazing rate, because the owners couldn't make any money.
That said, a few points re: tipping.
1) People here make at least minimum wage ($10.25, I think), which isn't great, but it's not terrible, either. I know a handful of people who have made a career of it, and they make way more than that. They get raises and vacations and benefits just like in other jobs.
2) I believe they do have an understanding with the tax people that there's a percentage grat income (which I think is lower than reality - I have a vague recollection of someone telling me a few years ago it was 10%, but I'll stand corrected).
3) I tip well because I enjoy it.
4) I was a waitress during my late teens and early 20s, and while it was hard work, it was also a lot of fun and very profitable. And I'm not at all someone who would get tips for being good-looking (I don't mean I think I'm ugly, just very ordinary). I'd do it again if for some reason I found myself needing work.
It is the only way I can see to punish the responsible parties (the restauranteurs, I mean)I don't know why people have the idea that all restaurateurs are underpaying their staff because they're cheap, greedy, etc. Owning a restaurant can be a high-stress and low-return situation. Restaurants come and go at an amazing rate, because the owners couldn't make any money.
That said, a few points re: tipping.
1) People here make at least minimum wage ($10.25, I think), which isn't great, but it's not terrible, either. I know a handful of people who have made a career of it, and they make way more than that. They get raises and vacations and benefits just like in other jobs.
2) I believe they do have an understanding with the tax people that there's a percentage grat income (which I think is lower than reality - I have a vague recollection of someone telling me a few years ago it was 10%, but I'll stand corrected).
3) I tip well because I enjoy it.
4) I was a waitress during my late teens and early 20s, and while it was hard work, it was also a lot of fun and very profitable. And I'm not at all someone who would get tips for being good-looking (I don't mean I think I'm ugly, just very ordinary). I'd do it again if for some reason I found myself needing work.
divagreen
5th February 2012, 12:07 AM
I thought I was a good payroll person! Giving the servers extra, because their wages are poor. I see your point... but not tipping isn't going to make the restaurant owners change the wage. Here in Ontario, it's standard that minimum wage is 10.25 and minimum wage for liquor servers are 8.90. You'd have to take it up with the Ministry of Labour, I would imagine...
:stare:
The US's minimum wage for server/bartender here is $3.13 an hour. Very, very rarely is it above that.
I supported myself for years waitressing/bartending and put myself first through nursing school and then massage school (although later during the year, we lived off of grants).
I suppose if enough people boycotted the service industry so that they don't have to tip anymore, you can effectively put single mothers putting themselves through school out of a job. Viva la revolution.
:stare:
The US's minimum wage for server/bartender here is $3.13 an hour. Very, very rarely is it above that.
I supported myself for years waitressing/bartending and put myself first through nursing school and then massage school (although later during the year, we lived off of grants).
I suppose if enough people boycotted the service industry so that they don't have to tip anymore, you can effectively put single mothers putting themselves through school out of a job. Viva la revolution.
Mantisdreamz
5th February 2012, 12:32 AM
I appreciate that you gave it some thought. My intent was not to remove the tips from the servers, but to avoid visiting the establishment completely.
:] I have been a server on and off for 10 years.
But also, not visiting the establishment will still affect the server's wages. And I doubt anything will be done about it (where owner's come to the realization that less people are visiting because they don't like the ways of how server's are paid).
Here in Ontario, it's standard that minimum wage is 10.25 and minimum wage for liquor servers are 8.90. You'd have to take it up with the Ministry of Labour, I would imagine...See, it's shit like that that makes me want to avoid restaurants and bars. What a putrid way to operate.
Agreed, and I'm not sure why it's like this. Probably mostly because in any service industry, it's assumed that there will be tips involved. It's just how our culture is.
First, to put it simply - if the service is bad, pay the regular tip, and ask to see the manager or preferably owner. Tell them the service sucked, and ask them to make good on it (comp a drink or meal etc.)
:no:Ya, I don't want to either. So I pay the tip whatever the service, and can either confront the manager every time, or eat at home.
Beans are fucking yummy.
It's just that... even if you get bad service anywhere, it's not like you should expect something because of it. I really don't like that trend that we have. "I didn't receive high quality service, therefore someone OWES me for my poor experience!!"
^Because, not only is that a very subjective thing... it's also kind of unrealistic to expect everyone you cross paths with to be in a super duper great mood... even if they are in the service industry. Wouldn't you rather give them a knowing smile that you know they're having a bad day, and try to get on the same page as them.. rather than taking it up behind their back? (to an extent... of course). But that will sometimes go a lot further... and i've seen the person on the receiving end appreciate it.
Be nice if, say, being sad about a death didn't have to mean a pay cut that day.
Ya... I think bereavement pay should be included in any service environment. I think servers are entitled to time off... but without pay.
I know, and advocate tipping discreetly and with cash whenever possible. (I very often end up paying with plastic, though...
Actually, I said that wrong. It's not the percentage of tips they receive that goes to management. It's a percentage of the sales that go to management.
In the last restaurant I worked at, the servers had to pay out 4.5% of their sales to be distributed to back of house, as well as management. So, if a server sold $1000, then $45 dollars HAD to be put aside (despite what servers made in tips). If say, the server made no tips... they'd be paying that $45 out of their pockets.
And part of that pay out, goes to management. It's a very strange system. And management also don't follow the rules of paying the serving staff for a minimum of 3 hours. (And can also fire without good reason).
:] I have been a server on and off for 10 years.
But also, not visiting the establishment will still affect the server's wages. And I doubt anything will be done about it (where owner's come to the realization that less people are visiting because they don't like the ways of how server's are paid).
Here in Ontario, it's standard that minimum wage is 10.25 and minimum wage for liquor servers are 8.90. You'd have to take it up with the Ministry of Labour, I would imagine...See, it's shit like that that makes me want to avoid restaurants and bars. What a putrid way to operate.
Agreed, and I'm not sure why it's like this. Probably mostly because in any service industry, it's assumed that there will be tips involved. It's just how our culture is.
First, to put it simply - if the service is bad, pay the regular tip, and ask to see the manager or preferably owner. Tell them the service sucked, and ask them to make good on it (comp a drink or meal etc.)
:no:Ya, I don't want to either. So I pay the tip whatever the service, and can either confront the manager every time, or eat at home.
Beans are fucking yummy.
It's just that... even if you get bad service anywhere, it's not like you should expect something because of it. I really don't like that trend that we have. "I didn't receive high quality service, therefore someone OWES me for my poor experience!!"
^Because, not only is that a very subjective thing... it's also kind of unrealistic to expect everyone you cross paths with to be in a super duper great mood... even if they are in the service industry. Wouldn't you rather give them a knowing smile that you know they're having a bad day, and try to get on the same page as them.. rather than taking it up behind their back? (to an extent... of course). But that will sometimes go a lot further... and i've seen the person on the receiving end appreciate it.
Be nice if, say, being sad about a death didn't have to mean a pay cut that day.
Ya... I think bereavement pay should be included in any service environment. I think servers are entitled to time off... but without pay.
I know, and advocate tipping discreetly and with cash whenever possible. (I very often end up paying with plastic, though...
Actually, I said that wrong. It's not the percentage of tips they receive that goes to management. It's a percentage of the sales that go to management.
In the last restaurant I worked at, the servers had to pay out 4.5% of their sales to be distributed to back of house, as well as management. So, if a server sold $1000, then $45 dollars HAD to be put aside (despite what servers made in tips). If say, the server made no tips... they'd be paying that $45 out of their pockets.
And part of that pay out, goes to management. It's a very strange system. And management also don't follow the rules of paying the serving staff for a minimum of 3 hours. (And can also fire without good reason).
Mantisdreamz
5th February 2012, 12:34 AM
I thought I was a good payroll person! Giving the servers extra, because their wages are poor. I see your point... but not tipping isn't going to make the restaurant owners change the wage. Here in Ontario, it's standard that minimum wage is 10.25 and minimum wage for liquor servers are 8.90. You'd have to take it up with the Ministry of Labour, I would imagine...
:stare:
The US's minimum wage for server/bartender here is $3.13 an hour. Very, very rarely is it above that.
:stare: That's crazy... robbery !?
And this is probably why Americans do tip very well when they come to Canada.
:stare:
The US's minimum wage for server/bartender here is $3.13 an hour. Very, very rarely is it above that.
:stare: That's crazy... robbery !?
And this is probably why Americans do tip very well when they come to Canada.
Amok
5th February 2012, 12:47 AM
I thought I was a good payroll person! Giving the servers extra, because their wages are poor. I see your point... but not tipping isn't going to make the restaurant owners change the wage. Here in Ontario, it's standard that minimum wage is 10.25 and minimum wage for liquor servers are 8.90. You'd have to take it up with the Ministry of Labour, I would imagine...
:stare:
The US's minimum wage for server/bartender here is $3.13 an hour. Very, very rarely is it above that.
:stare: That's crazy... robbery !?
And this is probably why Americans do tip very well when they come to Canada.
I'm speechless. If I recall correctly, I was making about $6-$7/hour as a waitress - before tips - 35 years ago.
To be fair, that was back in the days when the American dollar was worth - what? $1.20, $1.25 - Canadian, but still.
:stare:
The US's minimum wage for server/bartender here is $3.13 an hour. Very, very rarely is it above that.
:stare: That's crazy... robbery !?
And this is probably why Americans do tip very well when they come to Canada.
I'm speechless. If I recall correctly, I was making about $6-$7/hour as a waitress - before tips - 35 years ago.
To be fair, that was back in the days when the American dollar was worth - what? $1.20, $1.25 - Canadian, but still.
Amok
5th February 2012, 12:50 AM
I thought I was a good payroll person! Giving the servers extra, because their wages are poor. I see your point... but not tipping isn't going to make the restaurant owners change the wage. Here in Ontario, it's standard that minimum wage is 10.25 and minimum wage for liquor servers are 8.90. You'd have to take it up with the Ministry of Labour, I would imagine...
:stare:
The US's minimum wage for server/bartender here is $3.13 an hour. Very, very rarely is it above that.
:stare: That's crazy... robbery !?
And this is probably why Americans do tip very well when they come to Canada.
I'm speechless. If I recall correctly, I was making about $5-$7/hour as a waitress - before tips - 35 years ago.
To be fair, that was back in the days when the American dollar was worth - what? $1.20, $1.25 Canadian - but still.
:stare:
The US's minimum wage for server/bartender here is $3.13 an hour. Very, very rarely is it above that.
:stare: That's crazy... robbery !?
And this is probably why Americans do tip very well when they come to Canada.
I'm speechless. If I recall correctly, I was making about $5-$7/hour as a waitress - before tips - 35 years ago.
To be fair, that was back in the days when the American dollar was worth - what? $1.20, $1.25 Canadian - but still.
divagreen
5th February 2012, 01:15 AM
I thought I was a good payroll person! Giving the servers extra, because their wages are poor. I see your point... but not tipping isn't going to make the restaurant owners change the wage. Here in Ontario, it's standard that minimum wage is 10.25 and minimum wage for liquor servers are 8.90. You'd have to take it up with the Ministry of Labour, I would imagine...
:stare:
The US's minimum wage for server/bartender here is $3.13 an hour. Very, very rarely is it above that.
:stare: That's crazy... robbery !?
And this is probably why Americans do tip very well when they come to Canada.
yes, it explains why when I was in Canada, the server at the airport openly gaped when I told him to keep the change. He asked me twice if I was "sure".
15% to 20% is still pretty standard here though (sometimes, less :[). I usually leave about 20% to 25%.
I remember working in this one restaurant after my husband died and I was waiting to take the MT exam and we used to have this party of 12 who would come in once a month from WSSU. Nearly 2/3 of them did not believe in tipping. They would take up a server's entire section for nearly 2 hours and leave like $4 total. I kid you not.
But I have some great tipping stories too. $100 on xmas eve when a party of 7 showed up 15 minutes before closing. The little notes are the best though! I waited on one lady in my early twenties in a fine dining restaurant and left a tip that was bigger than her bill. On her credit card receipt she wrote on the back, "My divorce was finalised today and this is the first time that I have eaten out by myself in my entire life. Thank you for making it easy."
The best one though, was this young couple who were uber nice. They left and I went to the table and there was a napkin with a note on it, some bills and a huge pile of change. I don't remember exactly what it said, but it went something like this, "Thank you so much for the great service. Sorry we cannot pay you for what you are worth" and it had a bunch of other stuff too. Their bill was $42 and change so I was expecting something like 10%. They left me $12! And called the company hotline and said a bunch of nice things about me.
But I know that I have given really shitty service too, and sometimes my tips would reflect that and sometimes they wouldn't. We all have off days.
Nearly half of my wages now is tip based. I do feel somewhat resentful about that cos (although I shouldn't call it a clinic anymore, someone got after corporate about that and changed the name __ spa even though we are not a spa. My clientele is still dr. referral based.) I know that the owner is making a mint off of us and he still has yet to provide healthcare. But I would rather work there than anywhere else. :)
:stare:
The US's minimum wage for server/bartender here is $3.13 an hour. Very, very rarely is it above that.
:stare: That's crazy... robbery !?
And this is probably why Americans do tip very well when they come to Canada.
yes, it explains why when I was in Canada, the server at the airport openly gaped when I told him to keep the change. He asked me twice if I was "sure".
15% to 20% is still pretty standard here though (sometimes, less :[). I usually leave about 20% to 25%.
I remember working in this one restaurant after my husband died and I was waiting to take the MT exam and we used to have this party of 12 who would come in once a month from WSSU. Nearly 2/3 of them did not believe in tipping. They would take up a server's entire section for nearly 2 hours and leave like $4 total. I kid you not.
But I have some great tipping stories too. $100 on xmas eve when a party of 7 showed up 15 minutes before closing. The little notes are the best though! I waited on one lady in my early twenties in a fine dining restaurant and left a tip that was bigger than her bill. On her credit card receipt she wrote on the back, "My divorce was finalised today and this is the first time that I have eaten out by myself in my entire life. Thank you for making it easy."
The best one though, was this young couple who were uber nice. They left and I went to the table and there was a napkin with a note on it, some bills and a huge pile of change. I don't remember exactly what it said, but it went something like this, "Thank you so much for the great service. Sorry we cannot pay you for what you are worth" and it had a bunch of other stuff too. Their bill was $42 and change so I was expecting something like 10%. They left me $12! And called the company hotline and said a bunch of nice things about me.
But I know that I have given really shitty service too, and sometimes my tips would reflect that and sometimes they wouldn't. We all have off days.
Nearly half of my wages now is tip based. I do feel somewhat resentful about that cos (although I shouldn't call it a clinic anymore, someone got after corporate about that and changed the name __ spa even though we are not a spa. My clientele is still dr. referral based.) I know that the owner is making a mint off of us and he still has yet to provide healthcare. But I would rather work there than anywhere else. :)
Mantisdreamz
5th February 2012, 03:06 AM
I thought I was a good payroll person! Giving the servers extra, because their wages are poor. I see your point... but not tipping isn't going to make the restaurant owners change the wage. Here in Ontario, it's standard that minimum wage is 10.25 and minimum wage for liquor servers are 8.90. You'd have to take it up with the Ministry of Labour, I would imagine...
:stare:
The US's minimum wage for server/bartender here is $3.13 an hour. Very, very rarely is it above that.
:stare: That's crazy... robbery !?
And this is probably why Americans do tip very well when they come to Canada.
yes, it explains why when I was in Canada, the server at the airport openly gaped when I told him to keep the change. He asked me twice if I was "sure".
15% to 20% is still pretty standard here though (sometimes, less :[). I usually leave about 20% to 25%.
I remember working in this one restaurant after my husband died and I was waiting to take the MT exam and we used to have this party of 12 who would come in once a month from WSSU. Nearly 2/3 of them did not believe in tipping. They would take up a server's entire section for nearly 2 hours and leave like $4 total. I kid you not.
But I have some great tipping stories too. $100 on xmas eve when a party of 7 showed up 15 minutes before closing. The little notes are the best though! I waited on one lady in my early twenties in a fine dining restaurant and left a tip that was bigger than her bill. On her credit card receipt she wrote on the back, "My divorce was finalised today and this is the first time that I have eaten out by myself in my entire life. Thank you for making it easy."
The best one though, was this young couple who were uber nice. They left and I went to the table and there was a napkin with a note on it, some bills and a huge pile of change. I don't remember exactly what it said, but it went something like this, "Thank you so much for the great service. Sorry we cannot pay you for what you are worth" and it had a bunch of other stuff too. Their bill was $42 and change so I was expecting something like 10%. They left me $12! And called the company hotline and said a bunch of nice things about me.
But I know that I have given really shitty service too, and sometimes my tips would reflect that and sometimes they wouldn't. We all have off days.
Nearly half of my wages now is tip based. I do feel somewhat resentful about that cos (although I shouldn't call it a clinic anymore, someone got after corporate about that and changed the name __ spa even though we are not a spa. My clientele is still dr. referral based.) I know that the owner is making a mint off of us and he still has yet to provide healthcare. But I would rather work there than anywhere else. :)
:hug::hug:
I do know what you mean about the notes.. or just even having a good rapport with the people.. which makes it feel less like work, and more just having friendly discussion.
I remember one serving experience, I had a guy sitting on the patio having a pint and he was looking through old photos and had the bible on the table as well.. .he was kind of weird looking. It started pouring rain and he took off running and i went chasing him with his bible and pictures. He ended up throwing me a $50 bill for one pint and then taking off. It was an odd scenario.
Did your boss lower your wages since it became a spa type business??
:stare:
The US's minimum wage for server/bartender here is $3.13 an hour. Very, very rarely is it above that.
:stare: That's crazy... robbery !?
And this is probably why Americans do tip very well when they come to Canada.
yes, it explains why when I was in Canada, the server at the airport openly gaped when I told him to keep the change. He asked me twice if I was "sure".
15% to 20% is still pretty standard here though (sometimes, less :[). I usually leave about 20% to 25%.
I remember working in this one restaurant after my husband died and I was waiting to take the MT exam and we used to have this party of 12 who would come in once a month from WSSU. Nearly 2/3 of them did not believe in tipping. They would take up a server's entire section for nearly 2 hours and leave like $4 total. I kid you not.
But I have some great tipping stories too. $100 on xmas eve when a party of 7 showed up 15 minutes before closing. The little notes are the best though! I waited on one lady in my early twenties in a fine dining restaurant and left a tip that was bigger than her bill. On her credit card receipt she wrote on the back, "My divorce was finalised today and this is the first time that I have eaten out by myself in my entire life. Thank you for making it easy."
The best one though, was this young couple who were uber nice. They left and I went to the table and there was a napkin with a note on it, some bills and a huge pile of change. I don't remember exactly what it said, but it went something like this, "Thank you so much for the great service. Sorry we cannot pay you for what you are worth" and it had a bunch of other stuff too. Their bill was $42 and change so I was expecting something like 10%. They left me $12! And called the company hotline and said a bunch of nice things about me.
But I know that I have given really shitty service too, and sometimes my tips would reflect that and sometimes they wouldn't. We all have off days.
Nearly half of my wages now is tip based. I do feel somewhat resentful about that cos (although I shouldn't call it a clinic anymore, someone got after corporate about that and changed the name __ spa even though we are not a spa. My clientele is still dr. referral based.) I know that the owner is making a mint off of us and he still has yet to provide healthcare. But I would rather work there than anywhere else. :)
:hug::hug:
I do know what you mean about the notes.. or just even having a good rapport with the people.. which makes it feel less like work, and more just having friendly discussion.
I remember one serving experience, I had a guy sitting on the patio having a pint and he was looking through old photos and had the bible on the table as well.. .he was kind of weird looking. It started pouring rain and he took off running and i went chasing him with his bible and pictures. He ended up throwing me a $50 bill for one pint and then taking off. It was an odd scenario.
Did your boss lower your wages since it became a spa type business??
Jerome
5th February 2012, 03:24 AM
tipping is a way to get over on the government
fair taxes on labor include taxing the presumed tips
...clearly not, in Canada at least
Or were you being sarcastic?
That is how government sees it here.
fair taxes on labor include taxing the presumed tips
...clearly not, in Canada at least
Or were you being sarcastic?
That is how government sees it here.
Gonzo
5th February 2012, 01:46 PM
Reservoir Dogs - Tips For The Tippers - YouTube
Teshi
6th February 2012, 01:01 PM
I tip pretty well for primarily selfish reasons. There aren't that many restaurants, etc. around here and I'd prefer to avoid in any way irritating the people who'll be serving next time I go. Also, everyone knows everyone and I'd rather not get a reputation for being a cheap asshole.
nick
6th February 2012, 01:21 PM
Yeah but surely being a shit tipper is low on the scale for where you are.
"Yeah, she only tips 5% but at least she doesn't have a third-world sex slave."
"Yeah, she only tips 5% but at least she doesn't have a third-world sex slave."
Linus
6th February 2012, 01:36 PM
I tend to tip the standard amount, so I guess I'm a conformist. When travelling, I ask the local people I'm visiting how much it is normal to tip and use that as a guideline.
Teshi
6th February 2012, 02:32 PM
Yeah but surely being a shit tipper is low on the scale for where you are.
"Yeah, she only tips 5% but at least she doesn't have a third-world sex slave."
I dunno, I think the scale of badness from worst to least worst goes something like this:
1. whites-out other cars by passing them on the highway on wintry days
2. shoots ravens
3. underfeeds sled dogs
4. spends over a month per year in the lower 48
5. bad tipper
6. underfeeds children
7. has a third-world sex slave
8. has a Native sex slave
"Yeah, she only tips 5% but at least she doesn't have a third-world sex slave."
I dunno, I think the scale of badness from worst to least worst goes something like this:
1. whites-out other cars by passing them on the highway on wintry days
2. shoots ravens
3. underfeeds sled dogs
4. spends over a month per year in the lower 48
5. bad tipper
6. underfeeds children
7. has a third-world sex slave
8. has a Native sex slave
Brother Daniel
6th February 2012, 04:34 PM
I bet the guy nick's referring to is also a bad tipper.
Wouldn't surprise me if he did the white-out trick on other cars, too.
Wouldn't surprise me if he did the white-out trick on other cars, too.
nick
6th February 2012, 04:40 PM
Right, like you'd give 20% to a covert aggressor
Brother Daniel
6th February 2012, 04:49 PM
Wait. What's this about being taxed on the presumption of having received tips? How does that work?
Let's look at the source...
Gratuities or tips received by employees are income earned in respect of employment for purposes of the Income Tax Act.
Yeah I knew that tip income is taxable, but I was wondering about how the presumption of having received tips is implemented. From that description it would seem that someone could potentially be taxed on income never received, as in Jerome's post #32. I was wondering whether something like that happens in Canada now.
They are accountants. Are you sure there is NO way they can verify?
I can't see how they could. How is it traceable? I suppose with some actuarial help they could do some statistical analyses to see whether one's claim is believable, but would that count as verification?
If you went back to it, and hid your tips, do you think you would be nervous under a CRA audit? Or do you think it would be best to just admit to the tips like you did last time?
I'd just admit to the tips, for sure. Partly because I'm philosophically opposed to cheating, and partly because yes, I'd be nervous about an audit. I'm a shitty liar.
(though it may not be for CPP lol)
lol indeed.
Let's look at the source...
Gratuities or tips received by employees are income earned in respect of employment for purposes of the Income Tax Act.
Yeah I knew that tip income is taxable, but I was wondering about how the presumption of having received tips is implemented. From that description it would seem that someone could potentially be taxed on income never received, as in Jerome's post #32. I was wondering whether something like that happens in Canada now.
They are accountants. Are you sure there is NO way they can verify?
I can't see how they could. How is it traceable? I suppose with some actuarial help they could do some statistical analyses to see whether one's claim is believable, but would that count as verification?
If you went back to it, and hid your tips, do you think you would be nervous under a CRA audit? Or do you think it would be best to just admit to the tips like you did last time?
I'd just admit to the tips, for sure. Partly because I'm philosophically opposed to cheating, and partly because yes, I'd be nervous about an audit. I'm a shitty liar.
(though it may not be for CPP lol)
lol indeed.
Brother Daniel
6th February 2012, 04:50 PM
Right, like you'd give 20% to a covert aggressorexactly.
Cunt
7th February 2012, 12:45 AM
They are accountants. Are you sure there is NO way they can verify?
I can't see how they could. How is it traceable? I suppose with some actuarial help they could do some statistical analyses to see whether one's claim is believable, but would that count as verification?
What about checking the visa/debit machine records? Extracting an average from that...
I can't see how they could. How is it traceable? I suppose with some actuarial help they could do some statistical analyses to see whether one's claim is believable, but would that count as verification?
What about checking the visa/debit machine records? Extracting an average from that...
Teshi
7th February 2012, 11:04 AM
Right, like you'd give 20% to a covert aggressor
I would give a covert aggressor 20% OF A KNUCKLE SANDWICH
I would give a covert aggressor 20% OF A KNUCKLE SANDWICH
rudeigineile
7th February 2012, 11:18 AM
Up to about 15 years ago a lot of Irish people would get insulted if you tipped them (insulted is a bit strong they would feel awkward and not want to take it and be a little put out that you put them in that situation) I remember hiding from an American couple when I worked in my first job because they tipped constantly, everyone avoided them it wasn't just me, if you gave them a glass of water or even directions they would proudly present you with 'A Kennedy half dollar' which btw you can't spend or even exchange here.
It's still not part of the employees wage structure although some restaurants add a 'service charge' of between 12.5 and 20 percent, people often erroneously believe this is a tip for the server, but in reality it's the restaurant diddling the customer and the staff simultaneously. It is customary to leave between 10 and 20 percent tip, but if something costs about €5 -€15 it would be usual to leave no more or less than €2. I used to leave tips no matter what but I hate bad service and if it is exceptionally bad I won't tip, but if the food is bad and the service is ok I do still tip the waiting staff.
I did recently refuse to tip when the service had been ok but the food was awful and when I explained this to the waiter she was apologized with the fuck you tone with o attempt at reparation, so despite it being against my nature to cause a scene I refused point blank to pay, let her explain that to her boss. (maybe this should be in the confessions thread) But seriously the steak was so burned you could write with it we left the food pretty much untouched.
tldr -
Sometimes tip sometimes don't tip sometimes dine and dash :D
It's still not part of the employees wage structure although some restaurants add a 'service charge' of between 12.5 and 20 percent, people often erroneously believe this is a tip for the server, but in reality it's the restaurant diddling the customer and the staff simultaneously. It is customary to leave between 10 and 20 percent tip, but if something costs about €5 -€15 it would be usual to leave no more or less than €2. I used to leave tips no matter what but I hate bad service and if it is exceptionally bad I won't tip, but if the food is bad and the service is ok I do still tip the waiting staff.
I did recently refuse to tip when the service had been ok but the food was awful and when I explained this to the waiter she was apologized with the fuck you tone with o attempt at reparation, so despite it being against my nature to cause a scene I refused point blank to pay, let her explain that to her boss. (maybe this should be in the confessions thread) But seriously the steak was so burned you could write with it we left the food pretty much untouched.
tldr -
Sometimes tip sometimes don't tip sometimes dine and dash :D
Floppit
8th February 2012, 11:45 AM
I worked a city centre tipping restaurant for about 2 years, and lots of other places over the years but the one I'm talking about was hard to get into and renown for decent tips.
I could earn about £10 per hour in the early 00's. I was good at being sociable, effort, general hospitality but I wasn't one of the stars! I would disagree that tips are based (in the end) on gender, looks or flirting beyond what is required, and some, a bordering - let's say submissive, level of flirtation is required by both sexes to both sexes.
What the stars had was skill, no question, it was profound and stunning skill. One waiter who would often earn in excess of £100 per shift in tips alone (paid £5ph on top) could remember flawlessly orders for 2 courses from tables as large as 10 people, moreover he could remember who ordered what. He would hold the orders in his head while talking face to face without interruption to write until they were done ordering, then write for the chefs a tally system, he'd check back not with the tally but across each individual. It gets better, he would decide the order to bring the food depending on how he felt the group was, who was being honoured, females first (but not always) whether those older should be served before those younger or vice versa. That last bit was entirely subjective but he believed getting it spot on was never 'noticed' BUT that doing so gained the uber tips! Bearing in mind he was also very fast, he'd be doing this over 5 tables when busy AND he would refuse any assistance to get food out because it'd muck up his system - he still got it out hot! He was a myth! He eventually left for London, managed front of house somewhere rather special but always went back to straight 'waiting on' for the funds, and the pleasure.
I had none of those skills by the way, but I did genuinely want to make a meal out a night out and that was probably the one thing we had in common. We worked the same place but people were happy with me even if he was on shift, they tipped me BUT what he got was EARNED, it was extreme because the skills were extreme.
If customers are bored and considering the tip at the point of the bill, there'll never be much in it - tits may scrape an extra buck or two but nothing pant wetting. If customers have been SERVED seamlessly, if their individual expectations and quirks have been SERVED, if their wishes to honour a birthday guest have been granted in the SERVICE, if they have felt like favoured, wanted, and treasured PEOPLE, if the PLEASURE of SERVING them is evident and genuine - shit, on average, over a shift they tip, really tip.
I managed the pleasure of serving and usually liked people, wrote stuff down so was largely accurate and went the extra mile where I could - that gave me the highest unqualified wage and at times the highest wage I've ever earned.
There were plenty girls with big knockers flirting to hell and gone and they usually earned (overall) slightly less. The big hitters for getting tips were absolutely skilled, it was fair.
I could earn about £10 per hour in the early 00's. I was good at being sociable, effort, general hospitality but I wasn't one of the stars! I would disagree that tips are based (in the end) on gender, looks or flirting beyond what is required, and some, a bordering - let's say submissive, level of flirtation is required by both sexes to both sexes.
What the stars had was skill, no question, it was profound and stunning skill. One waiter who would often earn in excess of £100 per shift in tips alone (paid £5ph on top) could remember flawlessly orders for 2 courses from tables as large as 10 people, moreover he could remember who ordered what. He would hold the orders in his head while talking face to face without interruption to write until they were done ordering, then write for the chefs a tally system, he'd check back not with the tally but across each individual. It gets better, he would decide the order to bring the food depending on how he felt the group was, who was being honoured, females first (but not always) whether those older should be served before those younger or vice versa. That last bit was entirely subjective but he believed getting it spot on was never 'noticed' BUT that doing so gained the uber tips! Bearing in mind he was also very fast, he'd be doing this over 5 tables when busy AND he would refuse any assistance to get food out because it'd muck up his system - he still got it out hot! He was a myth! He eventually left for London, managed front of house somewhere rather special but always went back to straight 'waiting on' for the funds, and the pleasure.
I had none of those skills by the way, but I did genuinely want to make a meal out a night out and that was probably the one thing we had in common. We worked the same place but people were happy with me even if he was on shift, they tipped me BUT what he got was EARNED, it was extreme because the skills were extreme.
If customers are bored and considering the tip at the point of the bill, there'll never be much in it - tits may scrape an extra buck or two but nothing pant wetting. If customers have been SERVED seamlessly, if their individual expectations and quirks have been SERVED, if their wishes to honour a birthday guest have been granted in the SERVICE, if they have felt like favoured, wanted, and treasured PEOPLE, if the PLEASURE of SERVING them is evident and genuine - shit, on average, over a shift they tip, really tip.
I managed the pleasure of serving and usually liked people, wrote stuff down so was largely accurate and went the extra mile where I could - that gave me the highest unqualified wage and at times the highest wage I've ever earned.
There were plenty girls with big knockers flirting to hell and gone and they usually earned (overall) slightly less. The big hitters for getting tips were absolutely skilled, it was fair.
Cunt
8th February 2012, 01:49 PM
Was your restaurant called 'Hooters' (http://www.onpointnews.com/NEWS/Waitress-Sues-Hooters-in-Weighty-Discrimination-Case.html)?
My point is that, while your restaurant seemed fair, many are not. More to the point, if your customers don't know how to decide wages fairly according to labour laws, they likely make choices which would be illegal for any employer.
My point is that, while your restaurant seemed fair, many are not. More to the point, if your customers don't know how to decide wages fairly according to labour laws, they likely make choices which would be illegal for any employer.
Floppit
8th February 2012, 02:07 PM
Was your restaurant called 'Hooters' (http://www.onpointnews.com/NEWS/Waitress-Sues-Hooters-in-Weighty-Discrimination-Case.html)?
My point is that, while your restaurant seemed fair, many are not. More to the point, if your customers don't know how to decide wages fairly according to labour laws, they likely make choices which would be illegal for any employer.
No - don't think my fried eggs would get work at Hooters!
It was ethical enough for me, it's money for the service relationship and I don't see how any other than the customer can quantify it.
My point is that, while your restaurant seemed fair, many are not. More to the point, if your customers don't know how to decide wages fairly according to labour laws, they likely make choices which would be illegal for any employer.
No - don't think my fried eggs would get work at Hooters!
It was ethical enough for me, it's money for the service relationship and I don't see how any other than the customer can quantify it.
Cunt
8th February 2012, 02:18 PM
Anyone could quantify it, but we have laws protecting certain things. Like discrimination based on a protected characteristic, like race, or sex.
If it is not important to have fair wage laws, then they wouldn't exist so ubiquitously. If customers are deciding based on skin colour or sex (and they DO) they are not fit to pay wages. If they lower the tip based on something out of the servers control, such as staff shortage, they are being plain unfair. The owner should feel that sting, not a server who is working twice as hard.
If it is not important to have fair wage laws, then they wouldn't exist so ubiquitously. If customers are deciding based on skin colour or sex (and they DO) they are not fit to pay wages. If they lower the tip based on something out of the servers control, such as staff shortage, they are being plain unfair. The owner should feel that sting, not a server who is working twice as hard.
Floppit
8th February 2012, 02:44 PM
I'm just adding that my experience doesn't match your summary on how people tip - not once real skills are available and employed. At the lower skill levels I suspect what you're saying is far truer in reality but once someone is truly wined and dined it changes. For example the guy I was referring to was a gay, ginger, small for a bloke and would never get a job modelling!
If it is not important to have fair wage laws, then they wouldn't exist so ubiquitously.
By this logic one would also assume were they flaunted by tipping, tipping would also be ubiquitously illegal.
If it is not important to have fair wage laws, then they wouldn't exist so ubiquitously.
By this logic one would also assume were they flaunted by tipping, tipping would also be ubiquitously illegal.
Grumps
8th February 2012, 05:44 PM
Tipping is a status symbol.
Discuss.
Discuss.
ficus
8th February 2012, 06:31 PM
I find tipping unethical and disrespectful; the percentage thing illogical.
A waiter should be payed a standard wage.
A client should be charged for what he ordered.
The waiter's job does not change because I order a $30 or a $100 meal.
A waiter should be payed a standard wage.
A client should be charged for what he ordered.
The waiter's job does not change because I order a $30 or a $100 meal.
ksen
8th February 2012, 06:34 PM
ficus, have you ever tried to give a waiter just the tip?
ficus
8th February 2012, 07:12 PM
innuendo??
ksen
8th February 2012, 07:24 PM
Oh no . . . not in MY endo mister! :whyyou:
ficus
8th February 2012, 07:50 PM
I will admit that I enjoy very much not tipping: I especially like, when upon leaving, the receptionist reminds me that I haven't tipped; to which I typically respond: For pouring water?? or They mistreated me. etc.
ficus
8th February 2012, 08:07 PM
There is a line I heard from a Puertorican multimillionairess (one of those jetsetter-model-in-Paris-who-knew-Dali-et-Sartre, etc): The service was very bad in a restaurant; so when she went to the front desk to pay, she said:
"Tipping is a bet; if service is good you win; if service is bad you loose; service was bad, so, not only am I not giving a tip, I am discounting 20% from the consumption charge."
All of this with a husky, languid voice of course.
I have it stored in my archives to use when the appropriate occasion arises...
"Tipping is a bet; if service is good you win; if service is bad you loose; service was bad, so, not only am I not giving a tip, I am discounting 20% from the consumption charge."
All of this with a husky, languid voice of course.
I have it stored in my archives to use when the appropriate occasion arises...
Cunt
8th February 2012, 10:05 PM
Tipping is a status symbol.
Discuss.
I think you are correct, and an ugly one at that.
My friend was breaking it off with a woman, clearly and firmly, for reasons of sexual incompatibility. She insisted that he tell her why it was over and, after declining a couple of times, he said:
"Tips are for waitresses"
Discuss.
I think you are correct, and an ugly one at that.
My friend was breaking it off with a woman, clearly and firmly, for reasons of sexual incompatibility. She insisted that he tell her why it was over and, after declining a couple of times, he said:
"Tips are for waitresses"
Jerome
9th February 2012, 12:17 AM
lol @ performance bonus voters
you cheap sonsofbitches
you cheap sonsofbitches
Hermit
9th February 2012, 12:28 AM
lol @ performance bonus voters
you cheap sonsofbitches
lol @ the arrogance and ignorance of you. In Australia performance based tipping is entirely appropriate (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?p=14169#post14169) rather than indicative of a cheapskate.
you cheap sonsofbitches
lol @ the arrogance and ignorance of you. In Australia performance based tipping is entirely appropriate (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?p=14169#post14169) rather than indicative of a cheapskate.
Jerome
9th February 2012, 12:43 AM
lol tossing a couple of kiwis, whatever you call coins, on the table after the government taxed the worker on their fair wages, well if that makes you feel better, but her kids are still hungry.
Jerome
9th February 2012, 12:45 AM
I find tipping unethical and disrespectful; the percentage thing illogical.
A waiter should be payed a standard wage.
A client should be charged for what he ordered.
The waiter's job does not change because I order a $30 or a $100 meal.
right, we prefer dept. motor vehicle employees serving food.
A waiter should be payed a standard wage.
A client should be charged for what he ordered.
The waiter's job does not change because I order a $30 or a $100 meal.
right, we prefer dept. motor vehicle employees serving food.
ficus
9th February 2012, 12:46 AM
lol @ performance bonus voters
you cheap sonsofbitchesIn JDG spratch that can only mean: I believe in performance bonus; or if not the case; I contradict all of my stated values when tipping. Both are typical gnomian conditions.
you cheap sonsofbitchesIn JDG spratch that can only mean: I believe in performance bonus; or if not the case; I contradict all of my stated values when tipping. Both are typical gnomian conditions.
ficus
9th February 2012, 12:48 AM
I find tipping unethical and disrespectful; the percentage thing illogical.
A waiter should be payed a standard wage.
A client should be charged for what he ordered.
The waiter's job does not change because I order a $30 or a $100 meal.
right, we prefer dept. motor vehicle employees serving food.You made more sense when arguing that Obama was not a naturally born citizen.
A waiter should be payed a standard wage.
A client should be charged for what he ordered.
The waiter's job does not change because I order a $30 or a $100 meal.
right, we prefer dept. motor vehicle employees serving food.You made more sense when arguing that Obama was not a naturally born citizen.
ficus
9th February 2012, 12:49 AM
lol @ performance bonus voters
you cheap sonsofbitches
lol @ the arrogance and ignorance of you. In Australia performance based tipping is entirely appropriate (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?p=14169#post14169) rather than indicative of a cheapskate.he is gnoming you...
you cheap sonsofbitches
lol @ the arrogance and ignorance of you. In Australia performance based tipping is entirely appropriate (http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?p=14169#post14169) rather than indicative of a cheapskate.he is gnoming you...
Jerome
9th February 2012, 12:51 AM
The waiter's job does not change because I order a $30 or a $100 meal.
If you pay $100 for a meal, why shouldn't the person that served your needs for that night not be overly compensated?
If you pay $100 for a meal, why shouldn't the person that served your needs for that night not be overly compensated?
ficus
9th February 2012, 01:00 AM
The waiter's job does not change because I order a $30 or a $100 meal.
If you pay $100 for a meal, why shouldn't the person that served your needs for that night not be overly compensated?Because that person's hourly wage, which is what that person deserves to be paid, is unrelated to the amount I spent.
Since you claim having interns to which you pay nothing, you are not a bit credible in the position you are pretending to take here.
If you pay $100 for a meal, why shouldn't the person that served your needs for that night not be overly compensated?Because that person's hourly wage, which is what that person deserves to be paid, is unrelated to the amount I spent.
Since you claim having interns to which you pay nothing, you are not a bit credible in the position you are pretending to take here.
ficus
9th February 2012, 01:01 AM
Tipping is only a means by which restaurant owners lower their labor cost: That's why the gnome is so enthusiastic about it.
Jerome
9th February 2012, 01:01 AM
Because that person's hourly wage, which is what that person deserves to be paid, is unrelated to the amount I spent.
Right, you rely on others to compensate the people that serve you, like I said ..
Right, you rely on others to compensate the people that serve you, like I said ..
ficus
9th February 2012, 01:04 AM
Because that person's hourly wage, which is what that person deserves to be paid, is unrelated to the amount I spent.
Right, you rely on others to compensate the people that serve you, like I said ..Your trolling is in decadence: Their compensation is derived from my expenditure.
Right, you rely on others to compensate the people that serve you, like I said ..Your trolling is in decadence: Their compensation is derived from my expenditure.
ksen
9th February 2012, 04:14 AM
Jerome, you don't pay your interns?
Jerome
9th February 2012, 04:22 AM
Jerome, you don't pay your interns?
I don't have interns, labor deserves compensation.
I don't have interns, labor deserves compensation.
ficus
9th February 2012, 04:50 AM
Jerome, you don't pay your interns?
I don't have interns, labor deserves compensation.Quite the opposite of what you wrote in TR, where you said many people began working for you for free, and then some stayed in paying jobs.
Your trolling is in a downward spiral gnome...
I don't have interns, labor deserves compensation.Quite the opposite of what you wrote in TR, where you said many people began working for you for free, and then some stayed in paying jobs.
Your trolling is in a downward spiral gnome...
Jerome
9th February 2012, 05:21 AM
People have come to me and insisted that they be allowed to work for free.
Amok
9th February 2012, 06:50 AM
I find tipping unethical and disrespectful; the percentage thing illogical.
A waiter should be payed a standard wage.
A client should be charged for what he ordered.
The waiter's job does not change because I order a $30 or a $100 meal.
I don't find tipping unethical or disrespectful.
A waiter should, indeed, be paid a standard and reasonable wage. A customer should be charged for what she ordered.
And a customer should be able to tip the server without being called unethical or disrespectful. I respect the people I tip. I like them, too.
I'm honestly confused about this issue.
A waiter should be payed a standard wage.
A client should be charged for what he ordered.
The waiter's job does not change because I order a $30 or a $100 meal.
I don't find tipping unethical or disrespectful.
A waiter should, indeed, be paid a standard and reasonable wage. A customer should be charged for what she ordered.
And a customer should be able to tip the server without being called unethical or disrespectful. I respect the people I tip. I like them, too.
I'm honestly confused about this issue.
Cunt
9th February 2012, 02:17 PM
I find tipping unethical and disrespectful; the percentage thing illogical.
A waiter should be payed a standard wage.
A client should be charged for what he ordered.
The waiter's job does not change because I order a $30 or a $100 meal.
I don't find tipping unethical or disrespectful.
A waiter should, indeed, be paid a standard and reasonable wage. A customer should be charged for what she ordered.
And a customer should be able to tip the server without being called unethical or disrespectful. I respect the people I tip. I like them, too.
I'm honestly confused about this issue.
What do you do for a living, Amok?
A waiter should be payed a standard wage.
A client should be charged for what he ordered.
The waiter's job does not change because I order a $30 or a $100 meal.
I don't find tipping unethical or disrespectful.
A waiter should, indeed, be paid a standard and reasonable wage. A customer should be charged for what she ordered.
And a customer should be able to tip the server without being called unethical or disrespectful. I respect the people I tip. I like them, too.
I'm honestly confused about this issue.
What do you do for a living, Amok?
ficus
9th February 2012, 03:21 PM
I find tipping unethical and disrespectful; the percentage thing illogical.
A waiter should be payed a standard wage.
A client should be charged for what he ordered.
The waiter's job does not change because I order a $30 or a $100 meal.
I don't find tipping unethical or disrespectful.
A waiter should, indeed, be paid a standard and reasonable wage. A customer should be charged for what she ordered.
And a customer should be able to tip the server without being called unethical or disrespectful. I respect the people I tip. I like them, too.That wasn't my point: Demanding a tip is what I call disrespectful and unethical, not receiving one.
I'm honestly confused about this issue.I am not: Do not ask me to give someone what they don't deserve. Get paid by the hour, period.
A waiter should be payed a standard wage.
A client should be charged for what he ordered.
The waiter's job does not change because I order a $30 or a $100 meal.
I don't find tipping unethical or disrespectful.
A waiter should, indeed, be paid a standard and reasonable wage. A customer should be charged for what she ordered.
And a customer should be able to tip the server without being called unethical or disrespectful. I respect the people I tip. I like them, too.That wasn't my point: Demanding a tip is what I call disrespectful and unethical, not receiving one.
I'm honestly confused about this issue.I am not: Do not ask me to give someone what they don't deserve. Get paid by the hour, period.
ficus
9th February 2012, 03:23 PM
People have come to me and insisted that they be allowed to work for free.thanks for admitting you don't always pay compensation for labor.
ksen
9th February 2012, 03:45 PM
People have come to me and insisted that they be allowed to work for free.
You should insist that they be fairly compensated instead of pocketing the fruit of their labor for yourself.
You should insist that they be fairly compensated instead of pocketing the fruit of their labor for yourself.
oblivion
9th February 2012, 03:49 PM
they insisted, ksen. what could he do?
ksen
9th February 2012, 04:09 PM
they insisted, ksen. what could he do?
What if they insisted he pay them $150/hr? I'm sure he would have been shackled by that too.
What if they insisted he pay them $150/hr? I'm sure he would have been shackled by that too.
borealis
9th February 2012, 04:23 PM
Hm. I have been in a situation where I volunteered to do some work and later got paid to do some work by the same organisation. In fact this relationship switched back and forth several times.
But it was a not for profit organisation.
But it was a not for profit organisation.
ficus
9th February 2012, 04:56 PM
That's not the point: Point is Jerome, as always, is presenting arguments which contradict his previously stated positions and believes... apart from being incoherent sophisms....
borealis
9th February 2012, 05:11 PM
That's not the point: Point is Jerome, as always, is presenting arguments which contradict his previously stated positions and believes... apart from being incoherent sophisms....
Can't disagree with you there.
OMG I've silently agreed with ficus comments on MR at least three times and now this. :stare:
Can't disagree with you there.
OMG I've silently agreed with ficus comments on MR at least three times and now this. :stare:
Amok
9th February 2012, 05:22 PM
I find tipping unethical and disrespectful; the percentage thing illogical.
A waiter should be payed a standard wage.
A client should be charged for what he ordered.
The waiter's job does not change because I order a $30 or a $100 meal.
I don't find tipping unethical or disrespectful.
A waiter should, indeed, be paid a standard and reasonable wage. A customer should be charged for what she ordered.
And a customer should be able to tip the server without being called unethical or disrespectful. I respect the people I tip. I like them, too.
I'm honestly confused about this issue.
What do you do for a living, Amok?
I'm a journalist.
A waiter should be payed a standard wage.
A client should be charged for what he ordered.
The waiter's job does not change because I order a $30 or a $100 meal.
I don't find tipping unethical or disrespectful.
A waiter should, indeed, be paid a standard and reasonable wage. A customer should be charged for what she ordered.
And a customer should be able to tip the server without being called unethical or disrespectful. I respect the people I tip. I like them, too.
I'm honestly confused about this issue.
What do you do for a living, Amok?
I'm a journalist.
Cunt
9th February 2012, 05:38 PM
the only onesunethically demanding tips are the restaurant owners. Theyare exploitingthis so they don't have to provide fair wages for work.
ksen
9th February 2012, 06:41 PM
Maybe the waitstaff has insisted on getting paid mostly in tips.
ficus
9th February 2012, 07:04 PM
the only onesunethically demanding tips are the restaurant owners. Theyare exploitingthis so they don't have to provide fair wages for work.
precisely
precisely
ficus
9th February 2012, 07:05 PM
That's not the point: Point is Jerome, as always, is presenting arguments which contradict his previously stated positions and believes... apart from being incoherent sophisms....
Can't disagree with you there.
OMG I've silently agreed with ficus comments on MR at least three times and now this. :stare:I always felt there was hope for you...
Can't disagree with you there.
OMG I've silently agreed with ficus comments on MR at least three times and now this. :stare:I always felt there was hope for you...
borealis
9th February 2012, 07:11 PM
:noo:
Jerome
9th February 2012, 07:20 PM
The compensation for 'free' labor is a job offer.
ksen
9th February 2012, 07:35 PM
The compensation for 'free' labor is a job offer.
I guess if that helps you sleep at night.
I guess if that helps you sleep at night.
Cunt
9th February 2012, 07:36 PM
no, it is a possible job offer, so you can weasel out of your part if you so choose.
ficus
9th February 2012, 09:04 PM
...JEROME DA WEASEL...
Jerome
9th February 2012, 09:04 PM
:rolleyes:
ficus
9th February 2012, 09:18 PM
weasel spotted weaseling...
Brother Daniel
10th February 2012, 03:35 AM
I'm a journalist.
Maybe I've read some of your stuff.
Maybe I've read some of your stuff.
Cunt
10th February 2012, 03:45 AM
I find tipping unethical and disrespectful; the percentage thing illogical.
A waiter should be payed a standard wage.
A client should be charged for what he ordered.
The waiter's job does not change because I order a $30 or a $100 meal.
I don't find tipping unethical or disrespectful.
A waiter should, indeed, be paid a standard and reasonable wage. A customer should be charged for what she ordered.
And a customer should be able to tip the server without being called unethical or disrespectful. I respect the people I tip. I like them, too.
I'm honestly confused about this issue.
What do you do for a living, Amok?
I'm a journalist.
If you sold an article to a newspaper, would you feel it was right to be asked to go door to door with your hat in your hand to ask for part of your payment?
A waiter should be payed a standard wage.
A client should be charged for what he ordered.
The waiter's job does not change because I order a $30 or a $100 meal.
I don't find tipping unethical or disrespectful.
A waiter should, indeed, be paid a standard and reasonable wage. A customer should be charged for what she ordered.
And a customer should be able to tip the server without being called unethical or disrespectful. I respect the people I tip. I like them, too.
I'm honestly confused about this issue.
What do you do for a living, Amok?
I'm a journalist.
If you sold an article to a newspaper, would you feel it was right to be asked to go door to door with your hat in your hand to ask for part of your payment?
Cunt
10th February 2012, 03:46 AM
Oh, and by the way, that journalism thing is cool...did you know if you mash it together you can spell 'jism'?
Amok
12th February 2012, 12:29 AM
Cunt wrote:
If you sold an article to a newspaper, would you feel it was right to be asked to go door to door with your hat in your hand to ask for part of your payment?I'll say no, but not because I consider working at a job that includes tipping equates to going hat in hand asking for part of my payment.
As it stands now, there's no feasible way to do this.
I work at a couple of places, but one of them is still a traditional ink on paper medium, paid for by subscription (I believe, though I'll stand corrected, that I work for the only traditional print publication in the country that has ZERO advertising income). If I were to be paid partly in salary and partly in gratuity, and had to go around to every nook and cranny of the province to collect it, I wouldn't have time to do my job.
Maybe in the future when and if all news is electronic, there could be some sort of "tipping" feature included in either the subscription fee or an "above and beyond" feature for free publications that rely on ad revenue.
Anyway, I wouldn't feel diminished by this, any more than I did when I waited tables for living. I signed on knowing the salary and that extra income was available via tipping. I liked the work, and I liked the income.
If you sold an article to a newspaper, would you feel it was right to be asked to go door to door with your hat in your hand to ask for part of your payment?I'll say no, but not because I consider working at a job that includes tipping equates to going hat in hand asking for part of my payment.
As it stands now, there's no feasible way to do this.
I work at a couple of places, but one of them is still a traditional ink on paper medium, paid for by subscription (I believe, though I'll stand corrected, that I work for the only traditional print publication in the country that has ZERO advertising income). If I were to be paid partly in salary and partly in gratuity, and had to go around to every nook and cranny of the province to collect it, I wouldn't have time to do my job.
Maybe in the future when and if all news is electronic, there could be some sort of "tipping" feature included in either the subscription fee or an "above and beyond" feature for free publications that rely on ad revenue.
Anyway, I wouldn't feel diminished by this, any more than I did when I waited tables for living. I signed on knowing the salary and that extra income was available via tipping. I liked the work, and I liked the income.
Jerome
12th February 2012, 12:40 AM
Cunt, you are pretending that the instant gratification of receiving an immediate reward makes the human species preform better is false.
ficus
12th February 2012, 12:42 AM
you have been outed in this thread JEROME... all attempts at a comeback are futile...
Cunt
12th February 2012, 01:58 AM
I am pretending that basing wages on tips goes against fair wage practices, since tippers don't have to abide by those practices.
I can tip for protruding nipples. Many do. Is this ethical?
I can tip for protruding nipples. Many do. Is this ethical?
Jerome
12th February 2012, 02:03 AM
it is a social convention
Amok
12th February 2012, 02:37 AM
I am pretending that basing wages on tips goes against fair wage practices, since tippers don't have to abide by those practices.
I can tip for protruding nipples. Many do. Is this ethical?
I think that would be ethically neutral. The person who tips because of protruding nipples is ethically cancelled out by the person who uses protruding nipples to get tips. (Ha! Talking about tips and protruding nipples in this way somehow demands a play on words that's escaping me, at the moment.)
Anyway, I also don't think it's a significant issue, other than perhaps in very specific venues.
As I said earlier in the thread, if for some reason I found myself unemployed, one of the very first options I'd go would be waiting tables for a salary plus tips. And there's no way I'd do that if I thought for a second that attractiveness was a prerequisite, or if I thought it was demeaning, or if the actually salary (before tips) was in the realm of unfair wage practices.
I can tip for protruding nipples. Many do. Is this ethical?
I think that would be ethically neutral. The person who tips because of protruding nipples is ethically cancelled out by the person who uses protruding nipples to get tips. (Ha! Talking about tips and protruding nipples in this way somehow demands a play on words that's escaping me, at the moment.)
Anyway, I also don't think it's a significant issue, other than perhaps in very specific venues.
As I said earlier in the thread, if for some reason I found myself unemployed, one of the very first options I'd go would be waiting tables for a salary plus tips. And there's no way I'd do that if I thought for a second that attractiveness was a prerequisite, or if I thought it was demeaning, or if the actually salary (before tips) was in the realm of unfair wage practices.
Cunt
12th February 2012, 02:55 AM
It makes employees beggars and makes customers uninformed paymasters. You may not see it as begging, but are the patrons supposed to feel guilty if they don't tip? If they get regular service, should they avoid tipping? Or does regular service demand a tip in an ambiguous amount?
I have seldom seen tipping guidelines posted...it's up to the server to beg for more, EVERY single customer.
I have seldom seen tipping guidelines posted...it's up to the server to beg for more, EVERY single customer.
Cunt
12th February 2012, 02:56 AM
it is a social convention
So was slavery. What's your point?
So was slavery. What's your point?
Jerome
12th February 2012, 02:58 AM
it is a social convention
So was slavery. What's your point?
You want to make war on people paying tax on tips.
So was slavery. What's your point?
You want to make war on people paying tax on tips.
ficus
12th February 2012, 03:05 AM
Seems to me probable that tipping arose from:
Waiters not being tavern employees, but street boys who asked the clients if they wanted attention.
A sort of bribe to tavern employees to provide preferential treatment.
---
These customs developed into the modern idea that restaurant owners use to keep their employees wages down.
It is an altogether barbarious custom that should be legislated out of existence.
Waiters not being tavern employees, but street boys who asked the clients if they wanted attention.
A sort of bribe to tavern employees to provide preferential treatment.
---
These customs developed into the modern idea that restaurant owners use to keep their employees wages down.
It is an altogether barbarious custom that should be legislated out of existence.
Jerome
12th February 2012, 03:07 AM
Figuer wants to dine out at the dept. of motor cars.
Cunt
12th February 2012, 03:20 AM
More likely he wants to be presented with an honest price for goods and services, rather than having the restaurant owner leave it to the wait staff to negotiate part of the bill.
But maybe you're right.
But maybe you're right.
ficus
12th February 2012, 03:21 AM
DA WEASEL weasels.....
Jerome
12th February 2012, 03:24 AM
what you are missing is that even big deals which have a tip work the same way
people are always people
what is wrong with allowing people to trade amongst themselves, I bet the diner owner will take more from the tip than you would have given:
Why should the worker not gain the wages first?
Why should the worker have to wait for a check?
people are always people
what is wrong with allowing people to trade amongst themselves, I bet the diner owner will take more from the tip than you would have given:
Why should the worker not gain the wages first?
Why should the worker have to wait for a check?
ficus
12th February 2012, 03:31 AM
The waiter is not my problem; what money he makes is a matter of his employer: My problem is my wallet, period.
Cunt
12th February 2012, 03:31 AM
When there is an economic downturn, do you think tips drop off a bit?
Do you think the wait staff feels it first? Or the management?
Pay people for the work they do, fucker. It's pretty fucking simple.
Do you think the wait staff feels it first? Or the management?
Pay people for the work they do, fucker. It's pretty fucking simple.
ficus
12th February 2012, 03:32 AM
I bet the diner owner will take more from the tip than you would have given:Typical weasel incoherence...
ficus
12th February 2012, 03:36 AM
Next time I go into a restaurant, I will inform the owner that I will calculate the tip based on an hourly rate, and not on the dinner's price. If he objects, I'll inform him with well bred snobism that he has lost a client. The tipping dictatorship must end.
Jerome
12th February 2012, 03:40 AM
When there is an economic downturn, do you think tips drop off a bit?
Actually no, people that can go out will tip bigger because they feel good/guilty about spreading the wealth in short times.
Actually no, people that can go out will tip bigger because they feel good/guilty about spreading the wealth in short times.
ficus
12th February 2012, 03:42 AM
:hehe:
Jerome
12th February 2012, 03:45 AM
Al was famous for his tips in chi-town.
ficus
12th February 2012, 03:51 AM
you mean 'legal bribes' not 'tips'... who's Al?
Fuzzy
12th February 2012, 04:44 AM
My understanding was that the standard was 15%, so I do that and round to the nearest dollar.
20% seems like a lot, but it seems to be common here... apparently Ontarions tip more than New Brunswickers.
20% seems like a lot, but it seems to be common here... apparently Ontarions tip more than New Brunswickers.
Amok
12th February 2012, 05:06 AM
When there is an economic downturn, do you think tips drop off a bit?
Do you think the wait staff feels it first? Or the management?
Pay people for the work they do, fucker. It's pretty fucking simple.
I think management feels it first. People who have the money to eat out, will tip, for the most part.
I mentioned this earlier on the thread, but I'll ask it again. Do people really think restaurant owners are slave-waging their employees (even though it's not possible, at least in this province, because of minimum wage laws), because they're filthy, greedy creeps? Restaurants come and go at an amazing rate, because it's a tough, tough way to make a living, much less a profit.
Do you think the wait staff feels it first? Or the management?
Pay people for the work they do, fucker. It's pretty fucking simple.
I think management feels it first. People who have the money to eat out, will tip, for the most part.
I mentioned this earlier on the thread, but I'll ask it again. Do people really think restaurant owners are slave-waging their employees (even though it's not possible, at least in this province, because of minimum wage laws), because they're filthy, greedy creeps? Restaurants come and go at an amazing rate, because it's a tough, tough way to make a living, much less a profit.
Cunt
12th February 2012, 05:16 AM
Sounds tough. Do you tip at Mc Donalds?
Amok
12th February 2012, 05:47 AM
Sounds tough. Do you tip at Mc Donalds?
No, but that's because I don't like McDonalds food, so I don't go there. I do like Subway, though, and tip there. I tip at Tim's, too. Is that wrong? Why is that wrong?
No, but that's because I don't like McDonalds food, so I don't go there. I do like Subway, though, and tip there. I tip at Tim's, too. Is that wrong? Why is that wrong?
Cunt
12th February 2012, 05:59 AM
McDonalds doesn't seem to have too much trouble with running a restaurant or several. Oh, and they don't allow tipping.
Funny coincidence that.
I tend to think they keep it that way because they don't want their employees incentives out of their corporate hands. Produces a fairly consistent result, too.
Funny coincidence that.
I tend to think they keep it that way because they don't want their employees incentives out of their corporate hands. Produces a fairly consistent result, too.
rudeigineile
12th February 2012, 08:28 AM
If you bring your own food to the table and clear it away afterwards, you don't tip is my rule of thumb.
ficus
12th February 2012, 11:55 AM
I do like Subway, though, and tip there. :unsure:
Jerome
12th February 2012, 01:37 PM
Sounds tough. Do you tip at Mc Donalds?
Who has more take home pay, a McDonalds employee or a tip waiter?
Who has more take home pay, a McDonalds employee or a tip waiter?
Jerome
12th February 2012, 01:38 PM
Produces a fairly consistent result, too.
My asshole has a fairly consistent result every time I sit on the toilet, ..
My asshole has a fairly consistent result every time I sit on the toilet, ..
nick
12th February 2012, 01:50 PM
Mine doesn't :(
Grumps
12th February 2012, 02:09 PM
Mine doesn't :(
That's because of all the things you put in there.
That's because of all the things you put in there.
ficus
12th February 2012, 03:00 PM
if for some reason I found myself unemployed, one of the very first options I'd go would be waiting tables for a salary plus tips. I'd rather kill myself than wait tables; who am I kidding, I'd kill myself if I had to work.
Cunt
12th February 2012, 04:51 PM
Depends on whether the customers feel like tipping or not.
What it doesn't depend on is how hard the job is.
What it doesn't depend on is how hard the job is.
rudeigineile
12th February 2012, 07:51 PM
Sometimes it depends on the quality of the food which isn't really in the servers control
Cunt
12th February 2012, 07:55 PM
Lots of reasons to reduce tips can be out of the servers control. Being understaffed, bugs in the food. Hairy chef without a hair net. Uncomfortable chairs. The list goes on, but without question, it is ALL the restaurant operators responsibility.
ficus
12th February 2012, 08:08 PM
Modern technology makes waiters unnecessary. An intercom in each table and a conveyor belt are sufficient.
In fact I find waiters unsettling: They are supposed to be your servants, but they aren't, because the relationship with a servant is a special one, like that one has with the family dog. I don't conceive of a temporal dog-pet, thus I don't conceive of a temporal servant.
In fact I find waiters unsettling: They are supposed to be your servants, but they aren't, because the relationship with a servant is a special one, like that one has with the family dog. I don't conceive of a temporal dog-pet, thus I don't conceive of a temporal servant.
Cunt
12th February 2012, 08:15 PM
Wait staff is unneeded, but I don't mind someone doing the walking for me at a restaurant. I would prefer, however, that I choose if I want a tip-paid wait staff or not. If I could choose to get my own plate, or have someone else do it for tips, that would be better, but I can't even go get dinner without having to face one of those forced-moochers.
I went to a buffet today. Am I supposed to tip (not according to someone earlier). If that same someone also thinks it fair for the servers to 'tip out' (pay some of their tips to the busperson/cook/dishwasher/etc) then why not tip when paying at the counter, or getting food yourself like at a buffet?
I went to a buffet today. Am I supposed to tip (not according to someone earlier). If that same someone also thinks it fair for the servers to 'tip out' (pay some of their tips to the busperson/cook/dishwasher/etc) then why not tip when paying at the counter, or getting food yourself like at a buffet?
ficus
12th February 2012, 08:44 PM
forced-moochers.this
I went to a buffet today. Am I supposed to tip No, that's unnatural....
If that same someone also thinks it fair for the servers to 'tip out' (pay some of their tips to the busperson/cook/dishwasher/etc) then why not tip when paying at the counter, or getting food yourself like at a buffet?There is no rationale about tipping, just the tradition of place.
I went to a buffet today. Am I supposed to tip No, that's unnatural....
If that same someone also thinks it fair for the servers to 'tip out' (pay some of their tips to the busperson/cook/dishwasher/etc) then why not tip when paying at the counter, or getting food yourself like at a buffet?There is no rationale about tipping, just the tradition of place.
Cunt
12th February 2012, 09:41 PM
It's pretty irrational and largely unfair. It's not about the job being done, but how good the servers art of sycophancy is.
ksen
13th February 2012, 04:23 AM
Produces a fairly consistent result, too.
My asshole has a fairly consistent result every time I sit on the toilet, ..
inb4
Daphne: "My asshole has a fairly consistent result every time he posts, .."
My asshole has a fairly consistent result every time I sit on the toilet, ..
inb4
Daphne: "My asshole has a fairly consistent result every time he posts, .."
Amok
14th February 2012, 02:15 AM
Cunt wrote:
It's pretty irrational and largely unfair. I don't think tipping (at a lower percentage) at a buffet is either irrational or unfair. Maybe I'm not quite understanding the concept you're talking about, but the only buffet-type restaurants I've been to involve a server coming to the table, offering the menu or the buffet, taking drink orders, clearing the table, etc., etc. If it's a total do-it-yourself situation, I suppose that's different, but I've never experienced that.
Cunt wrote:
It's not about the job being done, but how good the servers art of sycophancy is. I also don't think that's accurate.
I don't think it's unfair, because the people who work in tipping-type jobs know the score when they make the decision to take the job.
And I don't think it's "not about the job being done and how good the server's art of sycophancy is," because sycophancy (and the nipple issue mentioned earlier) will only work on too small a percentage of customers to make it feasible.
The people who do the job in a professional/sensible/efficient/friendly/kind manner - even taking into account failings on the part of management or other workers (the kitchen) - will get gratuities.
I can't even imagine not tipping a good server because the seats were uncomfortable or the food was disappointing. If the food is really bad, I'll mention it, but might even tip more if the service was still good, because of the tipping-out issue.
And the "bad day" thing doesn't make much sense, either. I think most people understand that, as well as situations when a server is overwhelmed because of things out of their control (other staff not showing up for the shift and whatnot).
I had bad days (for both personal reasons and staffing reasons) when I was a waitress, and while there certainly were people who "punished" me for it, they were insignificant in the larger scheme.
I was not a "moocher," forced or otherwise. I worked for a wage plus tips. I was not a moocher.
It's pretty irrational and largely unfair. I don't think tipping (at a lower percentage) at a buffet is either irrational or unfair. Maybe I'm not quite understanding the concept you're talking about, but the only buffet-type restaurants I've been to involve a server coming to the table, offering the menu or the buffet, taking drink orders, clearing the table, etc., etc. If it's a total do-it-yourself situation, I suppose that's different, but I've never experienced that.
Cunt wrote:
It's not about the job being done, but how good the servers art of sycophancy is. I also don't think that's accurate.
I don't think it's unfair, because the people who work in tipping-type jobs know the score when they make the decision to take the job.
And I don't think it's "not about the job being done and how good the server's art of sycophancy is," because sycophancy (and the nipple issue mentioned earlier) will only work on too small a percentage of customers to make it feasible.
The people who do the job in a professional/sensible/efficient/friendly/kind manner - even taking into account failings on the part of management or other workers (the kitchen) - will get gratuities.
I can't even imagine not tipping a good server because the seats were uncomfortable or the food was disappointing. If the food is really bad, I'll mention it, but might even tip more if the service was still good, because of the tipping-out issue.
And the "bad day" thing doesn't make much sense, either. I think most people understand that, as well as situations when a server is overwhelmed because of things out of their control (other staff not showing up for the shift and whatnot).
I had bad days (for both personal reasons and staffing reasons) when I was a waitress, and while there certainly were people who "punished" me for it, they were insignificant in the larger scheme.
I was not a "moocher," forced or otherwise. I worked for a wage plus tips. I was not a moocher.
ficus
14th February 2012, 02:55 AM
I don't think it's unfair, because the people who work in tipping-type jobs know the score when they make the decision to take the job.:facepalm: unfairness refers to the CLIENT.
The people who do the job in a professional/sensible/efficient/friendly/kind manner - even taking into account failings on the part of management or other workers (the kitchen) - will get gratuities.Why should those gratuities be based on the price of the meal???
I can't even imagine not tipping a good server because the seats were uncomfortable or the food was disappointing. If the food is really bad, I'll mention it, but might even tip more if the service was still good, because of the tipping-out issue.
:unsure: :facepalm: :noo: :stare: :dunno: :rofl: :hehe: :ohmy: :shockcorn: :gonk: :staregonk:.
Ok, I have no option but to conclude you are sick and in need of therapy or intellectually challenged, or a masochist: I prefer the last two together. You would optionally pay more to an establishment where you received an overall bad service, so that your server gets more tip, even if that means the others, which probably are the cause of the bad service, also get more tip? That has to be the most inane, irrational conception of an action imaginable. But simply, why would a good server at a bad restaurant deserve more tip??? That's just beyond ridiculous. You are sick and clueless, period.
The people who do the job in a professional/sensible/efficient/friendly/kind manner - even taking into account failings on the part of management or other workers (the kitchen) - will get gratuities.Why should those gratuities be based on the price of the meal???
I can't even imagine not tipping a good server because the seats were uncomfortable or the food was disappointing. If the food is really bad, I'll mention it, but might even tip more if the service was still good, because of the tipping-out issue.
:unsure: :facepalm: :noo: :stare: :dunno: :rofl: :hehe: :ohmy: :shockcorn: :gonk: :staregonk:.
Ok, I have no option but to conclude you are sick and in need of therapy or intellectually challenged, or a masochist: I prefer the last two together. You would optionally pay more to an establishment where you received an overall bad service, so that your server gets more tip, even if that means the others, which probably are the cause of the bad service, also get more tip? That has to be the most inane, irrational conception of an action imaginable. But simply, why would a good server at a bad restaurant deserve more tip??? That's just beyond ridiculous. You are sick and clueless, period.
Amok
14th February 2012, 03:15 AM
Ficus wrote:
Ok, I have no option but to conclude you are sick and in need of therapy or intellectually challenged, or a masochist: I prefer the last two together. You would optionally pay more to an establishment where you received an overall bad service, so that your server gets more tip, even if that means the others, which probably are the cause of the bad service, also get more tip? That has to be the most inane, irrational conception of an action imaginable. But simply, why would a good server at a bad restaurant deserve more tip??? That's just beyond ridiculous. You are sick and clueless, period.You believe you misread. I wouldn't tip more for bad service. I might tip more for good service even if the food was less than satisfactory.
Ok, I have no option but to conclude you are sick and in need of therapy or intellectually challenged, or a masochist: I prefer the last two together. You would optionally pay more to an establishment where you received an overall bad service, so that your server gets more tip, even if that means the others, which probably are the cause of the bad service, also get more tip? That has to be the most inane, irrational conception of an action imaginable. But simply, why would a good server at a bad restaurant deserve more tip??? That's just beyond ridiculous. You are sick and clueless, period.You believe you misread. I wouldn't tip more for bad service. I might tip more for good service even if the food was less than satisfactory.
Mantisdreamz
14th February 2012, 03:41 AM
Modern technology makes waiters unnecessary. An intercom in each table and a conveyor belt are sufficient.
:rofl: Nice try
:rofl: Nice try
Jerome
14th February 2012, 04:05 AM
government needs a bite of every food you eat
Cunt
14th February 2012, 05:36 PM
http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2012/02/13/study-restaurants-grow-fat-by-exploiting-womens-labor/
Amok
14th February 2012, 07:10 PM
http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2012/02/13/study-restaurants-grow-fat-by-exploiting-womens-labor/
/\ /\ /\
What is the point of having minimum wage and labour laws if they aren't used?
Workers in restaurants should get (at least) the legislated minimum wage before tips. I can't believe the situation in the linked story is allowed to happen.
/\ /\ /\
What is the point of having minimum wage and labour laws if they aren't used?
Workers in restaurants should get (at least) the legislated minimum wage before tips. I can't believe the situation in the linked story is allowed to happen.
ficus
14th February 2012, 09:24 PM
Ficus wrote:
Ok, I have no option but to conclude you are sick and in need of therapy or intellectually challenged, or a masochist: I prefer the last two together. You would optionally pay more to an establishment where you received an overall bad service, so that your server gets more tip, even if that means the others, which probably are the cause of the bad service, also get more tip? That has to be the most inane, irrational conception of an action imaginable. But simply, why would a good server at a bad restaurant deserve more tip??? That's just beyond ridiculous. You are sick and clueless, period.You believe you misread. I wouldn't tip more for bad service. I might tip more for good service even if the food was less than satisfactory.No, I understood quite well; the red was what I understood; and my opinion of you remains the same, or is now even more poignant, seeing that you have no shame in repeating such a ridiculous notion.
Ok, I have no option but to conclude you are sick and in need of therapy or intellectually challenged, or a masochist: I prefer the last two together. You would optionally pay more to an establishment where you received an overall bad service, so that your server gets more tip, even if that means the others, which probably are the cause of the bad service, also get more tip? That has to be the most inane, irrational conception of an action imaginable. But simply, why would a good server at a bad restaurant deserve more tip??? That's just beyond ridiculous. You are sick and clueless, period.You believe you misread. I wouldn't tip more for bad service. I might tip more for good service even if the food was less than satisfactory.No, I understood quite well; the red was what I understood; and my opinion of you remains the same, or is now even more poignant, seeing that you have no shame in repeating such a ridiculous notion.
ficus
14th February 2012, 09:24 PM
Modern technology makes waiters unnecessary. An intercom in each table and a conveyor belt are sufficient.
:rofl: Nice tryThat's not a try... that's a proposal.
:rofl: Nice tryThat's not a try... that's a proposal.
Jerome
15th February 2012, 01:50 AM
http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2012/02/13/study-restaurants-grow-fat-by-exploiting-womens-labor/
Just amazing that government is taxing the labor of these women.
Just amazing that government is taxing the labor of these women.
FedUpWithFaith
15th February 2012, 02:13 AM
Speaking about unfair treatment of women and tipping, do people normally tip prostitutes? And what is the typical tip? What about higher end escorts that charge thousands per night? Please let me know by Friday before I go to the bank...
Amok
15th February 2012, 02:35 AM
Speaking about unfair treatment of women and tipping, do people normally tip prostitutes? And what is the typical tip? What about higher end escorts that charge thousands per night? Please let me know by Friday before I go to the bank...
Sex workers get tips.
Sex workers get tips.
FedUpWithFaith
15th February 2012, 02:42 AM
Speaking about unfair treatment of women and tipping, do people normally tip prostitutes? And what is the typical tip? What about higher end escorts that charge thousands per night? Please let me know by Friday before I go to the bank...
Sex workers get tips.
I won't ask you how you know this if you just give me more info as I requested.
Sex workers get tips.
I won't ask you how you know this if you just give me more info as I requested.
Amok
15th February 2012, 04:04 AM
Speaking about unfair treatment of women and tipping, do people normally tip prostitutes? And what is the typical tip? What about higher end escorts that charge thousands per night? Please let me know by Friday before I go to the bank...
Sex workers get tips.
I won't ask you how you know this if you just give me more info as I requested.
It would be in the 10%-20% range.
Sex workers get tips.
I won't ask you how you know this if you just give me more info as I requested.
It would be in the 10%-20% range.
Hermit
15th February 2012, 12:56 PM
Modern technology makes waiters unnecessary. An intercom in each table and a conveyor belt are sufficient.
:rofl: Nice try
Also, Charlie Chaplin was much funnier when he proposed the idea in 1936.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZlJ0vtUu4w
:rofl: Nice try
Also, Charlie Chaplin was much funnier when he proposed the idea in 1936.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZlJ0vtUu4w
Bobby Arthur
15th February 2012, 03:01 PM
I don't tip because society says I have to. Alright, I tip when somebody really deserves a tip. If they put forth an effort, I'll give them something extra. But I mean, this tipping automatically, that's for the birds. As far as I'm concerned they're just doing their job.
Hey, our girl was nice.
Hey, our girl was nice.
nick
15th February 2012, 03:10 PM
She was OK, but she wasn't anything special.
Bobby Arthur
15th February 2012, 03:20 PM
What's special? Take you in the back and suck your dick?
MSG
17th February 2012, 08:57 AM
the ethics of tipping: if you have a hot tip you should tell your mates, but get your bet on first.
Jerome
17th February 2012, 01:50 PM
:thumbsup:
Grumps
17th February 2012, 03:04 PM
Modern technology makes waiters unnecessary. An intercom in each table and a conveyor belt are sufficient.
:rofl: Nice try
Also, Charlie Chaplin was much funnier when he proposed the idea in 1936.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZlJ0vtUu4w
Sushi Train does it now, but the portions are tiny, expensive, and as they're Japanese also bland as all fuck.
:rofl: Nice try
Also, Charlie Chaplin was much funnier when he proposed the idea in 1936.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZlJ0vtUu4w
Sushi Train does it now, but the portions are tiny, expensive, and as they're Japanese also bland as all fuck.
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